should i convert toyota avensis 1.8 vvti 2003?

[pavdude]

hi all!
I'm wondering wheter I should convert my Avensis?
I've got no clue whatsoever about lpg, can anyone help me please?
Any advice would be appreciated

[rossko]

How many miles do you do? I wouldn't consider it unless more than 10,000.
Are you planning DIY or pro install?

[pavdude]

hi
last year i did around 12000 miles and I would rather leave it to the proffesional...

[stevet284]

If you plan to keep the car for a few years - go for it.

I believe the vvti engine has soft valve seats so you will also need a flash lube system installing.

Steve

[Tsipouro]

I believe the vvti engine has soft valve seats so you will also need a flash lube system installing.
Steve

is this a fact? Because I've heard in the past that some TOYOTA engines (running on LPG) had problems with their valves and valve seats but I think this is a common problem in most engines running on LPG (after thousands of kilometers)

[Gilbertd]

is this a fact? Because I've heard in the past that some TOYOTA engines (running on LPG) had problems with their valves and valve seats but I think this is a common problem in most engines running on LPG (after thousands of kilometers)

It's a problem in most Japanese engines but others are not affected at all. Land Rover V8s, BMW, Saab, Volvo, Mercedes and quite a few more do not suffer any problems. Others, such as Honda, are shot in less than 10,000 miles. It depends on the grade of steel used for the valve seats.

[Tsipouro]

well, this prins catalogue: http://www.autogas-umruesten.com/news/i ... en1207.pdf
is a problem report for many brands and models and the most common problem in all of them is wear of valves/seats

[Gilbertd]

It is but it is actually very useful. All of the cars not listed don't suffer a problem. Those that are listed do. If a car isn't on the list then you don't need Flashlube, if it isn't then don't worry about it, it won't be a problem.

[Speedy999]

Others, such as Honda, are shot in less than 10,000 miles. It depends on the grade of steel used for the valve seats.

LOL, lets not get myth confused with fact.

I like my Hondas and I like running on LPG, I did 40,000 miles on my previous Honda Accord 2.4 iVTEC and it was still running like new.

My current Honda Accord again a 2.4 iVTEC model was converted at 35,000 and is now on 98,000 and again has no issues whatsoever. Its still as nippy as ever.

Both cars had an electronic flashlube system fitted.

Also I see a lot of Toyota Previa's and Avensis's in Birmingham, being used as taxis and running on LPG.

[Gilbertd]

Both cars had an electronic flashlube system fitted.

and that is the whole point. Without Flashlube you would have suffered problems but with it you don't. Other engines don't suffer even without it. The list shows the ones that will suffer UNLESS Flashlube or similar is fitted.

[Tsipouro]

Flashlube kits were popular when car manufacturers were faced with a reduction of lead in petrol. The theory was that the lubricant would prevent the valve seats from wearing down. There are three reasons why in a modern car flashlube maybe a waste of money.
I am not sure that the oil is likely to end up on the valve seats, its in the air/fuel mix and flies past the valve seats at a considerable speed.

I still believe that flashlube is not a necessity in cars that were designed to run on unleaded fuel. Its just a marketing trick for the companies to sell some more, taking advantage of our insecurity about our engines and all the rumors around the valve/seats wear.

Did ever those flashlube producers even check an engine head or valve/seats after many miles of running on LPG?
How hard is it to run 2 identical cars, say 50,000kilometers, strip the heads and show how good your product is? It has always been sold as "a good thing, take our word that it works" type of based-on-faith proposition.

[rossko]

I am not sure that the oil is likely to end up on the valve seats, its in the air/fuel mix and flies past the valve seats at a considerable speed.

Presumably it can get there somehow, just exactly the same as the lead compounds in leaded fuel/air mix got there in the old days. But maybe that was all a marketing con too.

I still believe that flashlube is not a necessity in cars that were designed to run on unleaded fuel.

Your privilige, of course. No-one is forcing you to use it.

Did ever those flashlube producers even check an engine head or valve/seats after many miles of running on LPG?

Of course.
http://www.vanmeenen.com/flashlube/pdf/ ... atenew.pdf
http://greencar.co.il/site/ValveCare%20 ... 0Final.pdf
http://www.jlmlubricants.com/valve-save ... works.html

How hard is it to run 2 identical cars, say 50,000kilometers, strip the heads and show how good your product is?

Even more convincing to run one engine with some cylinders 'lubed' and some not?

[Gilbertd]

Tsipouro I don't understand your logic. On the one hand you link to a chart that confirms that some engines suffer valve seat wear on LPG you then say that you don't believe Flashlube works? Surely the whole point is that if you have one of the engines that are prone to wear, you need to fit Flashlube?

[Tsipouro]

Well many people deny that flashlube has a benefit action for the valves. Others say that you need it 100%.
I am not either one of them.
I've talked in Greece with people that have used LPG on black listed engines without using flashlube and their engines are still running (over 100.000km) without any problems. Also I've talked with others that used flashlube and they had valve/seats wear problems.
So i am still trying to figure out whats going on... I am still gathering information (thats why I am in this forum) and thats why I am trying to start a conversation here.
Definitely there is a matter of how much experienced was the personnel that made the installation. Many problems that occur are their fault.
I cant deny that flashlube is good, but I need proof to accept it
Well in the end everyone makes his choices. But still my intention here was to start a conversation around flashlube matters to see what people believe.

@rossko thanks for the links

[Speedy999]

I don't think it's a simple as saying one particular model of car needs flashlube and another doesn't, theres other factors in this.

Say person A has a Nissan Primera and does town driving but doesn't have flashlube fitted.
Say person B has exactly the same car but does lots of motorway driving again with no flashlube.

Person B's car may start to have VSR problems whilst Person A's doesn't.

Reason being higher constant revs mean higher temperature in chambers and therefore VSR. Where as the two driving car has shorter journeys, less revs and therefore less ambient temperature .

[Tsipouro]

speedy999 got a point there.
I've considered that and I started driving much more "softly" some years before. Usually i dont exceed 3800-4000rpm even in highways. Thats around 110-130km/h for my Corolla 1.4.
It's a common method to avoid wear for all cars.