Prins VS1 DI software

[Super7]

Hi everyone, new to the forum as looking for some help please.
Does anyone know if the Prins VS1 DI software is available? I have a Range Rover 5.0 where the prins system faulted and won't change over, I was in the process of injector cleaning fluid and I stupidly didn't check the tank level and it ran out, refilled the tank now it won't switch over so looking for some software to check it out but don't know if prins has released it to the general public yet?

[LPGC]

You mean the Prins VSI2 DI software.

Prins has never allowed the general public to have access to software and unlikely ever will. There were some illegally passed around access codes for VSI1 and an outside company made some knock-off VSI1 software called Bexprins, but for VSI2 you're stuck without access to the software. Even if you have the correct cable and a copy of VSI2 software on your computer you won't be able to use it unless Prins send you an unlock code for your copy of software running on your computer and they won't do that unless you've paid to go through one of their training courses.

If you don't put VSI2 into service mode before disconnecting any gas pipes between reducer and injectors it will interpret the lack of pressure as a leak in the system and go into error mode, the error will need clearing before it will switch back to LPG again. You need VSI2 software working to put it in service mode or to clear the error code, you may have to visit a Prins dealer to get the error code cleared.

I'm not a Prins dealer but have all the VSI1 capabilities, just not VSI2. I balked at the prospect of paying someone £1000 for 'training', even that someone said with my experience I didn't really need training so it would be pretty much an expensive paper exercise just to have access. However a couple of years ago I did a bit of work for a local company that runs a large fleet of vehicles most of which run VSI2 systems, they had a guy there that did all the conversions for them but this company held the Prins licence and retained it after the guy left. I still occasionally do them favours like sorting out LPG problems, they do me favours by letting me use their VSI2 facilities. I could potentially do it by calling in one of these favour swaps but you might as well visit a Prins dealer closer to you.

It gets worse with VSI2 though. Prins has a list of DI engines their systems are compatible with, for engines not currently on the list dealers can pay Prins maybe £5k to develop VSI2 to work with an engine not on the list, the dealer who pays for that development then gets exclusive access rights to the system for that engine. I believe that the Prins dealer in Huddersfield, West Yorkshire paid for the development for the Ford based 5L engine in your RangeRover, I also believe that regardless of which Prins dealer an owner thinks converted their Ford based 5.0 to LPG it is likely that the Huddersfield dealer fitted the conversion or at least set it up (calibration etc). I don't think this will prevent other Prins dealers clearing the error code but it's worth you asking.

In my opinion Prins 'closed shop' attitude is detrimental to their business in the UK, they would sell more systems and sell to better clued up installers if they didn't run it like a closed shop. I had a conversation along the same lines with 'the board' of BRC GB just before they went bust. I was the only installer BRC GB allowed access to official BRC software downloads who didn't pay them for 'training' or to be one of their 'official installers' but I sorted out a lot of BRC systems when their own installers couldn't. After BRC GB went bust the UK import and supply of BRC systems went to TinleyTech who would allow installers access to software downloads etc, that was a much better situation for BRC in the UK and for owners of vehicles fitted with BRC equipment in the UK. Last I heard about BRC in the UK it had gone back to being supplied by a different company headed by one of the previous guys from BRC GB, he was busy driving around to BRC installers premises to sort problems with BRC installs the BRC installers couldn't sort at his convenience not the customer who was waiting for his car to be fixed and running properly on LPG convenience. That's what the customer can expect when fitting a brand of system that is run as a closed shop.

[Super7]

That all makes perfect sense, I stupidly took one of the vapour pipes from the vapouriser to the injector bank off whilst the car was running so it detecting a leak would explain it.
It was actually installed by Mike Scott of Huddersfield and I can recall he did something with prins over this engine so that makes sense also.
I still have his number so I will try and contact him, unfortunately he's a long way from me in Somerset and I can't find anyone near who's a prinsf installer/service centre, I will do some more searching and see what I can find, failing that it looks like a long journey ahead.
Thank you very much for your comprehensive explanation, I've been out checking ohms on solinoids this evening and tank senders and all seem ok, so was getting a bit lost at what I had done, your explanation is very much appreciated and allows me to get someone to sort it
Thank you for taking the time to explain it so thoroughly.
Regards Charles

[LPGC]

You're welcome Charles.

It would likely have gone into error mode even if the engine wasn't running, the VSI2 ECU would still see it as a leak during the time the ignition was off.

Mike may be able to tell you if there's a Prins dealer closer to you.

[Super7]

I recall Mike saying he had a mate near Winchester and I've just found Alternertech near Winchester who are prins installers so I will give them a ring in the morning, some of the vapour pipes could do with replacing anyway so I'll get it serviced while I'm at it. They are 1 1/2 hours away which is much better than 4 1/2 to Huddersfield.
Thanks again.

[Super7]

Good outcome, thanks for your help, as the system was in fault I throughly it a good time to change the vapour and liquid filters and change the vapour hoses that were getting a bit soft. Bruce at Alternatech in Winchester was very helpful and reset the system and tweeted the pressure while he was at it so all good and running nicely on lpg again now.
I have one developing problem though in that the Range is cranking a long time before starting in the mornings, and it's now taking longer to start occasionally when it's been left a while during the day, I'm thinking maybe a fuel pressure issue so have booked it into my local garage for a diagnostic but they can't look at it until the end of the month. I'm a bit nervous that it's going to fail to start one day so my question is, can I force start a Prins system to start on lpg? I recall I could do something like hold the change button down on another system I had but is it possible to do so with my Prins system? Just in case it doesn't start on petrol one day and leaves me stranded.

[LPGC]

If LPG leaks into the engine manifold when it's not running the LPG replaces the air, then when you come to start the engine it gets petrol and LPG instead of petrol and air until it's pumped the LPG out of the exhaust and then it will start. You could check again for such leak (from the injectors and possibly reducer if the reducer has a vacuum connection to the manifold) but it's unlikely because the VSI2 system would detect this and go into fault mode in the same way it did when you opened pipes to put cleaner in.

The older 4.2 and 4.4 Jag engine'd Rangerovers didn't have a petrol return from the fuel rail, it had an electronic fuel pressure sender connected to the fuel rail and the petrol pump output was controlled by an ECU to steer fuel pressure to whatever the ECU dictated fuel pressure should be (varying with load). When running on LPG the pump continued to run causing fuel pressure to increase because the petrol wasn't being used, the ECU did reduce the pump output but even at minimum output pressure would still rise well above what the ECU dictated. Since the amount of fuel injected depends on both the injector pulse duration and fuel pressure the system compensates injector pulse duration for pressure (higher pressure than dictated the shorter the pulse length and vice/versa) and as the LPG system primary input is petrol injector pulse duration it meant that incorrect petrol pressure could mess up fuelling when running on LPG. There were/are 2 ways around that problem, fit an electronic fuel pressure emulator or fit a physical fuel return with an appropriate sized jet to continually bleed pressure from the petrol system, the physical return is preferred because it also protects the petrol pump instead of it seeing above spec pressure. The 5.0 is very different with it's direct injection setup but there is a low pressure and high pressure side to the petrol system and the installers might have fitted a physical return or emulator to the low pressure side or an emulator to the high pressure side. If a physical return is fitted there is potential for it to stick open, giving a no start situation until fuel pressure has built up after the engine has been turned off for a while. There could also be an issue with an emulator. But also I know that even an LPG calibration issue can cause starting issues on the 4.2 and 4.4 because it seems even the cold start petrol enrichment is based on fuel trims, so (say) if fuel trims have been steered too negative because the LPG system is calibrated a bit rich then the cold start enrichment would also be lean. Not sure how much of this is relevant to the 5.0 with it's DI system.

Don't know if your VSI2 system is setup to allow starting on LPG, you could ask the guys that cleared the fault code.

[Super7]

Thank you, that is very enlightening, I can see what you mean and how that could cause the problem, I will go back to Bryce to see if he can check it out before I go down the high and low pressure petrol system, thank you so much again. Refards Charles

[raini]

Hey! Thanks for sharing that!