Leonardo / Galileo LR Install - it's about time.

[LPGC]

In petrol form, I think you've described that Holley product..

Holley Sniper Efi. If I ran petrol enough I'd have one in a heartbeat.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_sy ... niper_efi/

Similar concept, the Holley includes all the mechanical hardware including petrol injectors etc but it's electronics will effectively do the same thing as the LPG setup I'm thinking of.

The only mechanical hardware needed for the setup I'm thinking of would be a petrol shut off solenoid and usual LPG kit such as the slave ECU, wiring, injectors, reducer, etc because the LPG injectors would be fitted in the manifold in usual fashion (so no need for a throttle body or something to employ for petrol fuelling because the original throttle body and carb still does that).

[Gilbertd]

I had a standard cooker-ring back when I ran LPG open-loop. It would blow-back, took out my inlet hose. Is the BLOS why this no longer happens? I don't know.

Blow back through the inlet is caused by a lean mixture no matter what fuel you are running on (try setting up triple 45DCOE Webers on an E Type when someone bought standard jetted Webers rather than a set correctly jetted for that engine, flames out of each intake firing straight at you!). That would suggest to me that the open loop wasn't set up correctly and maybe the Blos compensated. Or after fitting the Blos you had to adjust the vaporiser and got it a lot closer.

Hills are the issue, that's the one time I want petrol.

Sounds to me like it's going lean then. I bought a Range Rover Classic with a closed loop Lovato system on it but you had to switch to petrol to go up a hill or overtake. Turned out the Lovato vaporiser was only rated at 140bhp and was half full of heavy ends so at anything over 1/4 throttle it couldn't supply enough gas. Swapped the vaporiser for an R90E (high power version) and no more problems.

So my opinion is that both your problems have been caused by set up of what you fitted or what you fitted wasn't properly matched. I've done almost 300,000 miles in my P38 with a Leo and mixer. It drives no differently on LPG to petrol (OK, so I could probably detect a slight difference if I put it on a drag strip, but not in normal driving) and is used to tow the maximum 3.5 tonnes regularly (sometimes more) and will cruise across Europe at a steady 75-80mph (but not when towing).

[CNG]

Thanks G, I think I'm guilty of a confusing message.


This thing's a Series LR. Owning one of LR's other products, you're in for an 'expereince' if you ever get to drive one. Let be own one.

I love my ‘thing’ because, well because. It's gutless owing to a now high-mile engine which burns oil, aaandd.... it's a series LR - this thing's gutless on another level. And I care not a jot - that’d be part of its charm. I don't run it for 'fast'. It's gutless on petrol. I define it as the best bad vehicle I've ever owned.

It's... er, awful. Truly.

Yes, it's a classic yet never used as one. I couldn't tell you the part number for my clutch master-cylinder if my life depended on it. No facial-hair involved, the oil isn't Helmans or 90% petrol from all the cylinder wash from tuning the carburettor 15 hours a day - It's a 'daily' used as much in Feb as August. It 'looks' stock. There's not a straight panel on it. It's no 'Seen Crocodile Dundee once too often' jerry-can wagon.

It used to run LPG. A lash-up install done back in the day of peak-LPG by a railway-arch merchant when I had more money than time to install. The LPG was never set-up correctly, who knows what was going on - it was weak, it was rich. An AEB Joker/Wolf and a cooker-ring, it worked and would pop and bang. Its open-loop LPG and a 7:1CR killed what little performance it ever had.

My current CNG set-up is no lash-in, it's possible to see in real-time - better than most - what it's doing.

0.99.png (661.61 KiB) Viewed 1676 times

I've an Innovate wideband gauge on there - on those hills it runs near CNG stoich, 0.99 at worst. I'm not sure how that abortion works so well, but it does. Thus there's never been urgency to go closed-loop. CNG carries even less fuel for volume than LPG. It's ever slower. Nope, CNG doesn't help, and I don't mind.

I hope my float-bowl mount solenoid will give a boost.

I don't expect the Leo/Gal to make things all that much better, I do this because I think I should, and because I've a new high CR engine going in. The head-work alone was pricey and they're getting harder to replace. Timing and fuelling will get more critical. Gone are the days of another LR engine for £50. And it's not even the money, the variant I like (Late 5MB) you simply can't get .

I had best get fuel spot on.

[Gilbertd]

This thing's a Series LR. Owning one of LR's other products, you're in for an 'expereince' if you ever get to drive one. Let be own one.

Oh yes, I've driven plenty, absolutely gutless, ear defenders are needed at the maximum cruising speed of about 50 mph and you feel like rigor mortis has set in when you wake up the following day.

Around 1995/6 after the military had upgraded all their Series 3's to Defenders, all the Series 3's were bought by someone and there was a former WW2 airfield near Litchfield that was full of them (along with two hangars of brand new spares). They were all one price, £1500 each if I remember correctly (or plus VAT if they were radio cars with 24V electrics as they were classed as commercial) and all 2.25 petrol. You wandered around them, picked out the ones you wanted and they would pull them out for you. Some were low mileage and near immaculate while others looked like they had seen service in a war zone (in fact some had with IFOR markings on them). We were looking at the ones nobody else wanted, the left hand drive ones, as we were buying them to take to France. I think we bought about 12 and I drove every one from Litchfield to my place at Peterborough before my mate flew over from France and drove them to the ferry at Dover. Even he wasn't masochistic enough to drive them to the south of France but put them on the overnight Motorail train. At one point, just about every vineyard in his area had at least one. One was bought by a guy who wanted to use it for his jetski. He wanted a LWB, open top, so he could put the jetski in the back, reverse it down the beach until the jetski floated off, drive back up the beach and park it up and when he had finished reverse it back into the sea to pick the jetski up again. No idea how long that one lasted after being dunked in salt water every time it was used. The only downside as far as the French were concerned was that they were petrol, had they been diesel we could have sold at least 4 times the number

[LPGC]

Dad was a proper Landrover enthusiast, owned a few Series models between the late 70's and late 80's, used them as daily drivers and for his boating hobby. I best remember an L reg (1974?) LWB Safari (heat shield on the roof and bench seats in the rear) with 'sought after' manually operated free-wheeling front hubs, he fitted it with 3ton rear springs so the rear end wouldn't sag fully loaded towing his boat (the springs were overkill even for fully loaded conditions, didn't sag half an inch but if you drove over a pea you'd feel it). All holidays were boating related, at one place we stayed there was a very rough track cut out of a cliffside leading down to a beach, 100 yards of rocky beach before blending into a sandy area closer to the sea. Towbar on the back and another bolted through the front bumper for forward launching boats or towing one boat while pushing another to a slipway. To the amazement of onlookers we'd tow the boat down the cliff path, over the rocks and launch straight into the sea (but at least without dipping the Landrover in the sea). Drive along in cold weather with the heater on full and you'd be thinking it still feels like there's a cold draught in here, look down at the door and you could see the road through the 1/2inch bottom door gap, no door seal at the bottom and not supposed to be one lol. Dirty interior, just remove all the 'cushions' (square bits of foam covered with vinyl) and hosepipe the inside.

Did some of my early driving in Landrovers (before I was 17). I've since converted quite a few Series Landrovers to LPG. Some of them with oil filled air filters were a bit of a pain because with a mixer fitted on the carb the air intake duct would be the wrong length to reach the air filter and the dog-leg section on top of the carb would foul the bonnet before being modified. During test driving one, driving down a main road with high bankings at both side I thought 'that's far enough for a test drive, I ought to be turning around and heading back but I can't really do a 3 point turn on this section of road... Ahhh but I'm in a Landrover, just drive up the banking' lol. Lots of fun in small doses but I'd spent enough time in them when younger to want to drive one regularly, at least on the road. Loved the red and yellow 'gear' sticks for 4wd and low range, great over rocks, OK in mud, very tough, but not great in snow and for soft sand could do with having a lot more power to keep moving with the drag on the wheels that'd be sinking in. I bet they'd be just as economical with the V8 fitted and a revision to gearing while being better off road too.

I've mentioned this to Gilbert before - Sometime between the mid 70's and early to mid 80's dad took me to some sort of special scrap / storage place, a very big site. all sorts of stuff strewn about outside all over the place... such as bombs(!) of various sizes (the type you'd expect dropped by a WW2 bomber plane), machine guns, rocket launchers, tracked vehicles. And there was a massive warehouse containing old Landrovers stacked 3 high on racking all around the inside of the perimeter walls. Not the kind of place you'd expect to exist today, at least not open to visits from the public. Having just read Gilbert's account of ex military Series 3 Landrovers being warehoused when they replaced them with Defenders I wonder if this warehouse was full of (say) Series1 Landrovers that the military had replaced with Series2/3 Landrovers. I remember dad said they were mothballed but maybe they were for sale. I think we went just to buy some scrap steel but we were just about left to wonder around this big yard without being monitored very closely, have to wonder if any/all of the armaments there were still live.

[CNG]

Clearly you both 'get it'. Mine's been sorted, quiet. Why so many would subject their hearing thru' a Series diesel or the mobile biscuit-tin effect I'll never know.

Our local LR milly surplus was Vass in Ampthill.

Doing battle with more CNG gauges today. You would never believe how awkward those are to get right when all you're given is a 3-pin plug with no pin-out, different colors each time, and no idea if it's 12 or 5V. Or if the claim 0-90Ohm is 0-5V or 5-0V is etc. You usually pop them a split second before you find out. All have the same model number.

Meantime you lot flounce about with any AEB1050 and have it wired/ calibrated in under 5 mins.

[Gilbertd]

Doing battle with more CNG gauges today. You would never believe how awkward those are to get right when all you're given is a 3-pin plug with no pin-out, different colors each time, and no idea if it's 12 or 5V. Or if the claim 0-90Ohm is 0-5V or 5-0V is etc. You usually pop them a split second before you find out. All have the same model number.

Meantime you lot flounce about with any AEB1050 and have it wired/ calibrated in under 5 mins.

They don't have a voltage, they are purely resistive. The controller looks at the resistance to ground. Connection diagram for the AEB1050 is in the Galileo manual, White to White, leave Green unconnected and Black to ground.

[LPGC]

Doing battle with more CNG gauges today. You would never believe how awkward those are to get right when all you're given is a 3-pin plug with no pin-out, different colors each time, and no idea if it's 12 or 5V. Or if the claim 0-90Ohm is 0-5V or 5-0V is etc. You usually pop them a split second before you find out. All have the same model number.

Meantime you lot flounce about with any AEB1050 and have it wired/ calibrated in under 5 mins.

They don't have a voltage, they are purely resistive. The controller looks at the resistance to ground. Connection diagram for the AEB1050 is in the Galileo manual, White to White, leave Green unconnected and Black to ground.

I agree most level senders are unpowered and purely resistive including most AEB senders (the 1050 and 1090 for LPG single hole tanks and 806 for CNG).

But there are powered and proprietary powered versions around.

Could make life simple for yourself and just fit a resistive or AEB CNG level sender which will come with it's own wiring instructions which as Gilbert says are repeated anyway in the Galileo handbook

I wonder if you've been reading voltage(s) from the white / green wires from the Galileo? Usually AEB wiring for 50Ohm senders (e.g. 1050) leave the green wire unused, 90Ohm senders join the white and green wire together, using an AEB806 CNG sender you join the white and green together.

As memory serves if a 1050 is wired properly (omitting green wire) and goes open circuit the gauge on the dash shows empty, while if a 1090 is wired properly (connecting green to white) and goes open circuit the gauge shows full. Which implies that either the 1050's have opposite operation to the 1090's (empty to full 50>0 versus 0>90) and/or connecting the green wire offsets the reference voltage on the white wire. Black goes to earth, we don't need to connect the green wire on 0>50's so the white wire is definitely the sensor wire and to check the resistance between white and earth (and feed a voltage into the ECU's level reading AD converter) the white must have some reference voltage that is pulled down by sender resistance to earth (implying there's a resistor in the ECU on the white wire between reference voltage and the sender). Think I used to be more clued up on what the green wire does! But if the 1050's and 1090's are both low resistance at empty and high resistance at full I expect the green will just be another reference voltage pull up wire again connected to reference via a resistor.

Stag, KME and plenty other ECU makers used to have their own proprietary powered senders, such senders often featured LED indicators on the sender itself (or LEDs and an analogue gauge) but such ECU's could usually be set up to use a simple resistive sender instead. Seems AEB make a 'more linear' 5V powered version of CNG level sender (807A). I suppose if a sender has 2 pins it's going to be resistive, if 3 pins likely powered.

One thing that can cause some senders to fail is if the sender earth wire is wired in parallel with the solenoid coil earth wire, and they (jointly) are not connected to earth. What can happen then is that the sender gets 12v on it's earth wire when 12v is sent to the positive wire of the solenoid coil... and if the reference voltage to the sender is only 5V then the sender effectively gets -7V. Some senders just use resistive strips like a potentiometer missing one it's end terminals (which are likely to fair OK in case of -7V), in some senders you can clearly see they use rows of discrete components / semiconductors that might be polarity sensitive... Anyway, best not to connect a sender's earth connection to the same point as the tank's solenoid coil earth, even if there are no problems in terms of them jointly disconnecting from earth the reading isn't quite as good/consistent because the reading will change slightly depending on whether the tank solenoid is open or closed - Not the biggest concern because in most cases the gauge only needs to work when running on LPG so with the tank solenoid open but if you're trying to read an empty tank reading (to set the gauge to show say 1/4 full very soon after only a very slight difference in reading) the tank solenoid pulling the voltage from the sender can affect your results.

There was a mistake in the wiring diagram for the level gauge in some of the early AEB stuff (carb switch ot 175's), can't remember what the mistake was though.

[CNG]

Ah, if only CNG gauges were that simple. You imply it's like
LPG. You simply buy an AEB 806, look at the AEB diagram, plonk it on and away you go. Maybe that'd be how it works in markets where CNG is a 'thing'. Here that won't fly. There's three variants, and they'll all mixed, and then there's CNG201C. Five variants, none of which get a diagram. All wired differntly.

And because the eBay sellers don't know what they're selling and the people like TT and LPGshop don't either, thye just box-shift, you're taking pot-luck. What goes on eBay seems to be is the obscure 'end of run' gauges sold as an AEB806. Worse if you import, they'll tell you 'it' fits their brand of obscure controller, but won't tell you what that requires, thus you know what the gauge does.

Google 'K3101 CB01 CB02 CB03 CB08 Gauge / Manometer' and then tell me which you'd buy?

And you're pro - bet it beats you, or nearly. The sellers won't know either.

https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... =848&dpr=1

CB01 08.png (74.97 KiB) Viewed 1590 times

I'll have to write a separate thread.

[LPGC]

I get the gist of what you're saying, especially regards Ebay sellers.

But would have thought that if you buy an AEB806 from LPGAutoSupplies (TinleyTech) or LPGShop it will be the 'proper' AEB806, AEB controller compatible with a clear way to wire it up? Or you could at least ask them if it's the proper AEB806 before buying.

[Gilbertd]

I thought exactly the same. I Googled AEB806 and it shows a Black, White and Green wire where you would connect the Black to ground, the White to White and leave the Green unconnected. What is making it so complicated?

[CNG]

What is making it so complicated?

There's three variants, all are genuine AEB. Two don't match the AEB drawing, and the one that does, isn't easy to get. And AEB's documetation doesn't way what any of them are or the pin order etc.

I get the gist of what you're saying, especially regards Ebay sellers.

....buy an AEB806 from LPGAutoSupplies (TinleyTech) or LPGShop it will be the 'proper' AEB806, AEB controller ....

Sadly, I could rant forever....

TT don't sell CNG based stuff and LPGshop do. LPGshop have one option which is fine if you're using an AEB switch. The green wire ( I think) is the 5V rail on AEB stuff? Then we move to KME or whatever, they specify CNG201, the Chinese version of AEB806. This assumes that the CNG201 you source is a match for the hard to source AEB806, which it won't be. And if it is, you won't know.

Because it was made on a Tuesday.

The problem is that genuine AEB stuff changes with the wind, because it comes from the same source in China as CNG201C, and there's heaps of those in constant variation. When the wind blows, they wired red/yellow/white, or it could be green/pink/blue. but... the pin-out order changes. I have a green/white/ black and a white/ black /green. Some are 12V, some 5V. By the time you've got this sorted, you've popped another one. That's if it ever worked, the fault rate is very high.
My guess, the stuff sold by LPGShop seems to be scrag end of some obscure OEM variant made for Atiker in Turkey or whoever...

http://www.cngauge.com/

And if you can tie what you see on their web site to anything after it's filtered thru' to the retailers, you're doing better than me. cngauge.com don't put wiring or pin-out or model numbers on anything. Which is an improvement on AEB, because at least it won't be wrong?

Whatever the voltage, the output, the wiring or it's gauge-thread, they're all CNG201C. I think the boss of the place must be called CNG201C.


Worse you can't ask the sellers, because all they know is AEB1050 etc, ie LPG - and eBay box-shifters, forget it, no one knows. All I know is I'm likely the only person in the UK to have fitted a CNG gauge for at least a year, likely far longer... thus I've always got to get to a box of fecked gauges from far and wide, before I can get one to work.


/rant off.

[Gilbertd]

If you've got one with Green/White and Black wires use that one. If Green is, as you say, for a voltage, it isn't connected to the Galileo so you don't have a problem other than over-thinking it.

[LPGC]

This link is a PDF of the wiring diagram for LPGTech systems that at the time were supplied with a proprietary LPGTech powered LPG level sender (of the 'LED on the sender type I mentioned above). The diagram also shows how to wire in an AEB806 level sender if the application is CNG instead of LPG.
http://www.lpgtech.eu/wp-content/upload ... nia_EN.pdf

Note that the wiring diagram shows 3 wires to the proprietary (LPGTech) powered LPG level sender (red, white, black).
It also shows 3 wires to the AEB806 (green, white, black).
On both the LPGTech ECU and the AEB806, Black is earth (wire black to black), white is signal (wire white to white
The LPGTech ECU red wire would be either a12v or 5V feed (I forget which).
Perhaps the critical bit - The diagram shows a 680Ohm resistor between the red and the green...

Which I'm sure works OK if using an AEB806 as part of an old LPGTech install. But you want to wire an AEB806 to an AEB Galileo. I expect that the LPGTech system outputs 12V on the red wire to the proprietary LPGTech powered level sender and the 3 wire AEB806 needs a 5V feed on it's green wire, hence the critical 680Ohm resistor. Given that, it's reasonable to assume that when fitting an AEB806 to an AEB Galileo we could just connect white to white, black to black and green to green.. We know that the green wire from the Galileo can't be connected directly to a low impedance voltage source inside the Galileo because if we use the Galileo with a 90Ohm sender we connect the green to the white (and if the green wire were connected straight to 12V or 5V inside the Galileo a 90Ohm level sender wouldn't work with the green wire connected, instead it would just burn the sender out, e.g. if we stick 12V or 5V through a 90Ohm sender that has resistance of 1Ohm because it's reading empty it's going to flow 12Amps or 5Amps respectively and either case is going to burn any electronics in the sender...) , so it's reasonable to assume that the green wire from the Galileo is a high impedance voltage feed (it is connected to a reference voltage inside the Galileo but via a series resistor).

AEB makes both ECU's and level senders, they make their ECU's with 3 wires for the level sender white black and green, they make their level senders with 3 wires white black and green, we'd intuitively expect to wire white to white, black to black (black to earth) and green to green and not need to add a resistor that they didn't supply or note on any of their wiring diagrams.

But if I wanted to make sure I'd first wire up the Galileo (without connecting the AEB806 yet until I'd done the following tests)...Check the voltage on the green wire from the Galileo, if it reads 5V I would connect green to green *directly. If it reads 12V I would wire a 680Ohm resistor between earth and the green wire then check voltage at the junction between the resistor and green wire (maybe there is a 680Ohm resistor in the Galileo between 12V and green wire - we know it definitely doesn't connect straight to a low impedance power rail anyway)... If we first read 12v on the green but read 5V after we connected the green to earth via a 680Ohm resistor it would confirm there's a resistor in the Galileo of appropriate value to see 5V at the end that feeds the 806 (and if such resistor were 680Ohms it would suggest the 806 has around 300Ohms across feed and earth wires, perhaps info you could use to identify feed and earth wires on obscure CNG level senders), or if voltage remains at 12V it would suggest there isn't a resistor inside the Galileo (but we already know there must be something between a power rail and the green wire) so we could follow the example of the LPGTech diagram and put a 680Ohm resistor between the Galileo green wire and AEB806 green wire. *To be even more sure could wire a 680Ohm resistor between the green wire from the Galileo and green wire of the 806 even if the green wire read 5V at the first test, but it seems unnecessary.

There are even more things you could do.. For example if for some seemingly insane reason AEB made their 806 sensor incompatible with their own ECUs... You know that the white wire from the AEB ECU is the level sender signal input wire and you know that inside the AEB ECU the white wire is wired to a reference voltage via a resistor and the AD convertor reads the voltage at the white wire end of the internal resistor. All other wiring diagrams for the 806 suggest it needs a power feed on the green, white is signal, black is earth, to make the 806 work with the 'incompatile' ECU you can make a little circuit that feeds the 806 with reference voltage on the green, takes signal input from the white and feeds it into an amplifier that provides low impedance output, the low impedance output is capable of pulling the voltage on the white wire to the same (or a different) voltage as the input signal. An op-amp circuit with selected pull down and feedback resistors could pull the voltage on the white wire (hardly affected by the ECU's internal pull up resistor) to reflect the working range of any sender's output... I've used that trick to 'effect a fix' on a Citreon ECU's engine coolant temp sensor circuit in the past. The Citreon ECU seemed to have an internal problem causing it to correctly read the voltage on it's coolant temp sensor wire but with incorrect pull up voltage/resistance on that wire, my circuit involved it's own voltage regulator to provide reference voltage via a resistor to the engine sensor and pulled the voltage on the Citreon ECUs temp sensor wire to what would be normal voltage for any given temperature regardless of the ECU broken internal reference voltage/resistance.

[Gilbertd]

But if I wanted to make sure I'd first wire up the Galileo (without connecting the AEB806 yet until I'd done the following tests)...Check the voltage on the green wire from the Galileo,

Or follow the diagram and don't connect the green wire?

There are even more things you could do.. For example if for some seemingly insane reason AEB made their 806 sensor incompatible with their own ECUs... You know that the white wire from the AEB ECU is the level sender signal input wire and you know that inside the AEB ECU the white wire is wired to a reference voltage via a resistor and the AD convertor reads the voltage at the white wire end of the internal resistor

But the white wire simply has a resistance to the ground wire..... Connect that and ignore the green wire as the Galileo diagram tells you to.

[LPGC]

Looking at what seems to be an early Leonardo diagram it shows white to white, green to green and black to ground for both LPG and CNG level sensors but doesn't show which model level sensers..
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/15578 ... =29#manual

Galileo diagram (see page 20) shows white and green connected separately to an 'AEB standard' sender and it's clear the pic of the 'AEB Standard' sensor is a CNG sensor, the standard sensor has 3 wires a white, green and black, it's wired white to white, green to green and the sensor black to earth.
https://www.aeb.it/wp-content/uploads/2 ... _REV.1.pdf
Just below the 'AEB standard' wiring it shows the wiring for a 2 wire AEB1050 sender with the white connected and green isolated, and just below that it shows the wiring for a 2 wire 0>90 ohm sensor with the white and green connected together jointly to the sender white wire.

This is all I'm looking at for the 806 but it shows white wire and green wire connected separately to the 806 (but using all 3 wires including the black earth)
https://www.aeb.it/wp-content/uploads/2 ... uzioni.pdf
Also if we look at a pic of an 806 on LPGSHop's site there's a white and a green wire in the loom (though I can't see a black but I expect that's just due to the angle the pic was taken at of the loom).
https://lpgshop.co.uk/aeb806-pressure-g ... el-sender/

AEB ECU's usually just give you a reading of between 0 and 255 on screen for the sender position, while most other makes of ECU give you a voltage reading on screen. On an AEB system if we connect the white to green but don't connect a sender (or if a connected sender goes open circuit) we get a reading of close to 255 (or close to 5V on a different make ECU), or if we short the wires to ground we get a reading of close to zero on an AEB based system (or close to 0V on a different make system). Of course a 0>90Ohm sender at it's 0Ohms position will also give a 0 AEB reading or close to 0V reading, just the same as if we shorted the white wire to ground. But with the 0>90Ohm sensor connected and at it's 90Ohm position the AEB reading will be around 150 (as memory serves, but the point is it's not a 255 open circuit reading) or on a none AEB system the reading will be around 4.7V (again as opposed to 5V) reading. So to me it seems the senders are read using an AD convertor in most ECU's including AEB ECU's, 8 bit 0>5V inside AEB ECU's hence the 0>255 range, and probably just a similar 0>5V 8 bit AD convertor in most other ECU's too since they only seem to have close to 0.2V resolution (at 0.1V resolution there'd be 500 steps between 0 and 5V but at 0.2V resolution only 250 steps). I believe that the white wire is connected to a reference voltage inside the ECU via a resistor and that an AD convertor connects to the white wire at the level sender side of the resistor, in this way the ECU internal resistor and the level sender describe a 2 resistor voltage divider with the AD convertor measuring the divided voltage, the sender resistance being the pull down resistor and the internal ECU resistor being the pull up resistor. I also believe that the green wire is similarly (like the white wire) connected to a voltage reference inside the ECU via a resistor but unlike the white wire the AD convertor doesn't connect to the green wire directly. When we wire up a 0>90 sender on an AEB system we're supposed to connect the green to the white but the 0>90 will work even if we don't connect the green wire, just gives a bit less accuracy/resolution and with more bias (less linearity of voltage output versus gauge position). If we use a 1050AEB sensor we're supposed to just connect the white wire but if we connect the green wire it'll still work though again with less accuracy/resolution and more bias (again less linearly). We can program an AEB carb switch to use an AEB1050, 0>90 or (as memory serves) other senders for CNG and unusual spec senders but we can't change the points at which individual level gauge on the switch go out with a simple carb switch. On other AEB systems we can program the point at which individual level gauge lights go on/off. I believe the AEB1050 have opposite range of resistance to most 0>90's (50>0 rather than 0>50) because if we open circuit a 1050 the level gauge will show empty (when correctly set up in software for high resistance to show empty and low resistance to show full) while if we open circuit a 0>90 the level gauge will show full (when correctly set up in software for low resistance to show empty and high resistance to show full). Most AEB stuff allows you the standard setup for an AEB1050 or 0>90 but that's just with presumed points for the LED lights to come on / go off at, they also allow you to input custom settings for LED lights to come on / go off at, to use custom settings for a 0>90 we need to use the rising rate scale (0>255), to use custom settings for an AEB 1050 we need to use the falling number scale (255>0) or the gauge will read empty when full and vice/versa.

[Gilbertd]

Galileo diagram (see page 20) shows white and green connected separately to an 'AEB standard' sender and it's clear the pic of the 'AEB Standard' sensor is a CNG sensor, the standard sensor has 3 wires a white, green and black, it's wired white to white, green to green and the sensor black to earth.
https://www.aeb.it/wp-content/uploads/2 ... _REV.1.pdf
Just below the 'AEB standard' wiring it shows the wiring for a 2 wire AEB1050 sender with the white connected and green isolated, and just below that it shows the wiring for a 2 wire 0>90 ohm sensor with the white and green connected together jointly to the sender white wire.

Seems pretty simple to me. You don't have a 2 wire 0>90 Ohm sensor so you don't join the white and green together. You need to connect the black to ground and white to white. Use a magnet to check if it works and, if it doesn't, connect green to green. That's what the Galileo documentation shows for the sensor shown on the picture that looks like a CNG gauge, so simply connect it that way.

Level gauges are over rated anyway. You fill the tank, reset the trip and make a note of how far you can get before it runs out. As long as you reset the trip every time you fill up, you know how much you've got left.

[LPGC]

Seems pretty simple to me. You don't have a 2 wire 0>90 Ohm sensor so you don't join the white and green together. You need to connect the black to ground and white to white. Use a magnet to check if it works and, if it doesn't, connect green to green. That's what the Galileo documentation shows for the sensor shown on the picture that looks like a CNG gauge, so simply connect it that way.

Level gauges are over rated anyway. You fill the tank, reset the trip and make a note of how far you can get before it runs out. As long as you reset the trip every time you fill up, you know how much you've got left.

I agree with thoughts on wiring and testing by using something around the sender that the sender's magnet will follow but it's only LPG senders that have magnets since CNG senders measure pressure directly as opposed to measuring liquid level by following the position of a shaft that's driven by a float arm. Could maybe test a CNG sender's output at least over part of it's range by rigging to say a CO2 bottle but might be just as easy to test it in application on a CNG tank (obviously if it needs to come back off wait until the tank is completely empty lol).

LPG single hole multivalve tank senders aren't accurate, tend to be a bit better on 30degree toroidal tanks than on zero degree toroidal tanks, bit better still on cylinder tanks than on 30degree toroidals but none of the senders on single holes are really accurate. Bit better on 4 hole tanks. Not sure how accurate a CNG pressure sender would be but some of the limitations of LPG senders seem to be due to their reliance on through-brass magnetic connections and slop in setups that turn straight line motion of float arms into turning motion for the sender to follow. I bet they could make a very accurate CNG pressure sender but I doubt the inexpensive common ones are as good as they could be.

If it works like I think it works (as I've described above) the AEB ECU level sender wiring with it's 3 wire setup was a good design idea... Use just the white for 50>0Ohm (the oldskool AEB1050) senders, connect green to white for 0>90Ohm senders (the green adds another connection to reference voltage via a resistor so lifts the voltage that the AD convertor will read when a 90Ohm sender is only at it's 50Ohm position), connect white to white and green to green for AEB powered senders (the green connected to reference voltage via a resistor provides the power supply for the powered sender). I could be wrong but it's what I've presumed to be correct for a long time hehe.

Thinking outside the box @CNG, these days it would be easily possible to use any CNG rated gauge that will fit the level sender threads, it wouldn't even need to have an electrical interface... Point a USB camera at the gauge and have a tablet on the dash that shows it's image lol. Can buy a USB endoscope for £10.

[CNG]

Thinking outside the box @CNG, these days it would be easily possible to use any CNG rated gauge that will fit the level sender threads, it wouldn't even need to have an electrical interface... Point a USB camera at the gauge and have a tablet on the dash that shows it's image lol. Can buy a USB endoscope for £10.

YESSSS! That'd work!

I intended to put this part of the install as a separate thread - frankly I could bore you rigid with the whole saga.

All of your comments are completely valid, only when this CNG gauge 'thing' started, and when I had a 'proper, proper' AEB806 - this over the Chinese offerings, I installed as the AEB circuit. This 'assuming' an AEB806 was 12V. This seemed reasonable then, and AEB don't put voltages on the diagram, thus 12V seems reasonable. Hall Effect thru' a divider... I thought? Ahem, that finished my one and only chance.

That mistake put me on the road to hell.

LPGshop have been out of stock for near three years. I tried importing genuine AEB806 from all over the world. Always got Chinese stuff. I see LPGshop have AEB806 now.

That led me to true 12V versions from the Chinese. Throw all logic out the window. What white wire? what green wire? Is it 12 or 5V. No info comes with, and you can't ask. If you do, the answer won't help. And why were Chinese gauges sold as a AEB806 not 5V? Then... after I got that far....

It took me a while to grasp why I was killing the 12V version of these, with 12V. This when I had the pink and yellow wires sorted.... I assumed 12V was 12V as seen in any car. The Chinese gauges don't like 12V nominal . Obvious now, yes, yes I know, they want a stable buck supply. I popped another 3-4 before I worked this out. A few more mis-wires, did for some others. No wiring diagram see, and I got it right by looking at Chinese ECU diagrams. In Chinese. I now know what the pink wire does on the obscure versions of the Chinese CNG201C I was getting.

i spent hours studying numerous ecu wiring diagrams to establish all of what Simon writes from experience, and a heap of gauges into the bargain. I'm pretty sure a pro would not make that first 12V not 5V stable mistake, but... if you did, and via COVID you can't JUST buy another, you'd find yourself on the same road, and for the same reasons.

I cry now, I had a rare 90 Ohm version, but smoked it before I realised. No diagram, no std. colours, gives lots of opportunity to smoke gauges. And hours of fruitless nothing.

I was doing battle with TAPs too at the time. Those were easier.


sorry, thought I should explain, only I reached my boredom threshold about three paragraphs back.

[CNG]

Blowback Backfire Ring Valves
Anally retentive query. I've a collection of these in 80mm., yet never been able to source one in 70mm, and I've not had a backfire for years- ever less likely with a Leo/Gal, yet reckon a valve won't hurt. The usual suspects long sold out of anything in 70mm. Single-point is - let's face it - dead. I must be the last installing such things, in the UK anyway.

Blowback Backfire Valve.png (495.44 KiB) Viewed 1387 times

Finally, finally got a used one, found in Lithuania. I'm about to plonk it in, and was going to put the hinge at 12 o'clock. Then it occurs to me why would I want it shut in default, and add restriction before it opens to WOT?
Then 6 o'clock makes some sense. 3 or 9 o'clock leaves the flap's weight on the hinge, this over choking air-flow, yet more readily closed?

It's an LR. Can't imagine it makes much difference, what's received wisdom?