rossko wrote:LPGC wrote:I'm not the only LPG pro on this thread to know, for a fact, that what I said is true!
But
which fact, you said so much? "Ecotec is not UKLPG registered"? "Suppliers on this forum accept payment for fake registrations"? (thats a very small field - are you implicating Tinley Tech?)
rossko wrote:LPGC wrote:I'm not the only LPG pro on this thread to know, for a fact, that what I said is true!
But
which fact, you said so much? "Ecotec is not UKLPG registered"? "Suppliers on this forum accept payment for fake registrations"? (thats a very small field - are you implicating Tinley Tech?)
As Dai said, I'm certainly not implictating Tinley Tech do this, I'm certain they don't put vehicles on the UKLPG register on the basis of a phone call. Tinley Tech are not guilty but they are aware that this happens even if they don't know specifically whom is involved. I have known other well known suppliers in the past (days of the LPGA) who would post an LPGA cert out on the basis of photographic evidence (and to me concise photographic evidence of install safety is good enough to warrant a cert so fair enough). I'm not implicating anyone who's posted on this thread at all either.
It isn't just suppliers that do this, though the suppliers will obviously be familiar to more people than most installers. Installers do this too - Do you think all the newly set up Polish installers are members of UKLPG or rather that many know each other and help each other out with certification? I visited a fairly new Polish installer recently and they asked me if I could put their installs on the register 'because the usual guy they phone to register vehicles isn't able to at the moment'. It isn't just newly set up or Polish installers. It seems this is probably much more widespread than you'd imagine... Not just a few companies are involved, but a lot.
Now, if UKLPG were to admit this is true then it would surely mean that their registration scheme isn't worth the paper it's written on. Pardon the pun about paper, it seems a paper certificate is too much to ask these days so it's all done 'on the database', not a great idea because it means anyone who does care about a vehicle they're buying having UKLPG registration needs to get online probably at the point of sale, which will probably be on someone else's driveway... Paper certs cost to produce, when you have a database it costs nothing to add an entry. Paper certs are good when buying a car (for anyone who cares), database is good for the minority of insurers who care about UKLPG registration.
Not forgetting UKLPG are a profit making company, if they were to admit problems with their system exists it could mean the collapse of their money earner? UKLPG membership is not a legal requirement for installers, or suppliers, and I don't see UKLPG mentioned by the government at all, it is not a legal requirement that insurers take any notice of UKLPG's database and most don't, UKLPG to me seem more of a handicap for the industry than a boost - They take your money for registering vehicles on their database but don't do much to prevent others cheating the system and don't do much to get Joe public to convert their vehicles to LPG (I have never seen a TV ad or heard a radio ad by UKLPG). The message they put out dupes customers into believing they are the authority on LPG converted vehicles in this country and creates an un-level playing field for installers in the sense a customer might pay one of their members a higher price for a @!## install when they could have paid a none member a lower price for a good install. Since they are a profit making organisation, where do you think vehicle registration money goes? They limited BRC UK's operations by applying a condition that they could only be members if they only sell to UKLPG installers or people who pay BRC UK £1000 for 'safety training' (and given this I know BRC UK were seriously considering revoking membership of UKLPG). Meanwhile, if anyone wants to buy BRC equipment, they can buy it freely from BRC suppliers abroad.. That is a massive handicap to a UK supplier, and what does the supplier get in return? Preferential mentions on UKLPG's website. So is BRC equipment any safer than other brands of equipment (since UKLPG mention then on their website or does all the LPG equipment we install meet the necessary standards?
If what I have said above is true (and it is) and this is widespread (and it is), then what exactly does a UKLPG registration mean to Joe Public? To me it doesn't mean anything because if there's, say, a 50% chance that the vehicle in question was put on the database (the true figure might even be more) on the back of a phone call then it's completely meaningless from the outset. The remaining, say 50% chance, that it was issued in the proper manner still only means it was issued by a UKLPG registered installer following that installer's inspection, which most likely means they registered their own work with the full knowledge that it is never likely to ever be seen by anyone from UKLPG in any case... And with the full knowledge that the standards are common sense anyway and they'd have had to have done a particularly scary job of install for it not to meet those standards.
Meanwhile, anyone in the trade that isn't a member of UKLPG is very unlikely to report anyone who pays for vehicles to be put on the register or the people that receive money for putting vehicles on the register because to do so would be 'like biting your nose to spite your face'. Anyone in the trade who knows of such a way to cheat the system might one day want to cheat the system (and pay someone to put a vehicle on the database on the back of just a phone-call) themselves. Similarly, anyone who sees through UKLPG's 'let's make a profit and play down the shortfalls in our system' position, like myself, wouldn't want to help UKLPG by reporting people that cheat UKLPG's dis-functional system.
I am very aware that UKLPG could sue me for the above comments, but they won't because I will then need to prove my case. I am more than capable of proving all the above is true and wouldn't hesitate to do so should push come to shove - I would go very public with any outcomes. I occasionally used to advertise in the Yorkshire Autotrader - On one occasion the then LPGA had organised some of their members to advertise together in a single box which included text to the effect of 'if you don't have your conversion done by one of these it might not be safe and you won't get insurance'. The ad ran for several weeks, I complained to Autotrader, who passed my message on to the LPGA and funnily enough the ad didn't contain the same messages in the next issue.
Currently we have a situation where most people in the industry who have their feelers out are aware of what is happening. On one side of the fence we have none UKLPG members who are fed up of UKLPG members voicing the 'safety and quality' message because they know that message is false but it makes them potentially look bad for not being members. On the other side of the fence we have UKLPG members, some of whom actually believe the message they put out is true, others that know the true situation but are happy to play along with the message because it makes them look good. It is funny how people's viewpoints seem to change as they stride over the fence... Some have the attitude 'if you can't beat em join em' knowing full well the system doesn't work, because when they weren't members of UKLPG they were able to pay for installs to be registered on the basis of a phone call.
Simon
Lpgc
