LPG Discussion Forum

Two years ago I had my 60000 mile Mercedes C estate 2litre year 2000 converted to gas all certificates etc and was very happy,it ran super.About 4 months ago it started to miss on gas,I asked the install company to have a look and the opinion was the install was fine suspect the ignition system....So off to merc and on the star system,all checked out fine but to be sure had new plugs and ignition coils etc changed..It still runs fine on petrol but will not run on gas missing and popping in the exhaust.Installers are still saying ignition is the problem..They tried to interrogate the system but the laptop just crashed time and time again.I then found out the gas ecu is a bardolini!!! I understand this is a rare bit of kit as if i phone any installers most have never heard of it or just dont want to know...The suppliers of the kit who are very very well known are not interested just pass me back to the installer...I have now managed to obtain bardolini disk and lead but it still crashes ..
I really need some help on this the treatment recieved has been disgusting I have a very nice car that at the moment has been ruined!!!!
To me and the Merc engineer the problem points to the gas injection system so where do I go from here..I will add this was not a cheap install and should last longer than 2 years.I realize the system can be removed and use petrol as before but isn't there anybody capable of sorting this out.Have been offered a new front end at £800-00.but would rather remove the system........Have no faith in gas at the moment.
Situated in Cambridge.

Just a thought as my experience of injection systems is minimal, but rather than replace the entire front end, could you not just replace the ECU? You've got all the plumbing, vapouriser and injectors, I would have thought they would be generic enough to work with a different ECU. You'd almost certainly have to change the wiring loom, but I would have thought that would be all.

Alternatively, try a different laptop or operating system with the software and lead you have. I couldn't get my interface to work on a laptop running Windows XP so I have an older, low spec machine running Windows 2000 that works fine for setting up the gas system.

Bardolini seems to Bulgarian
bsm-bg . com
As you say, vanishlingly rare in UK, so very few will touch it.

Can't comment on connection issues on info supplied - you may need an older/later version of windows or a USB/serial port laptop

Did your expensive Merc diagnosis actually conclude which cylinder was misbehaving, if it was a particular one? If they told you, you could perhaps try reconfiguring the lpg injectors to see if the fault moves.

Mercs can be a right pain on LPG with ignition issues, most installers have been there so it was reasonable advice to get that sorted, but that seems to be eliminated now.

"Have no faith in gas at the moment." well I guess some people lose faith in diesel when they get a flat tyre. Get fed up with your installer, who isn't supporting his product very well.

We had this once before on a repair - the computer doen't crash, it just won't connect. It was just a port setting but it is so long ago I can't remember exacly which one you have to select. I am sure if you fiddle you will find the answer!

its also possible the ecu is toast, we have had a lot of this lately with aeb based stuff

I thank you for the many replies......What is aeb based stuff??

AEB are an Italian manufacturer of LPG equipment and many manufacturers (OMVL and Bigas to name but two) use AEB electronics with their own hardware (vapouriser, injectors, etc). It could well be that your ECU is an AEB item with a different name on it.

Gilbertd wrote:It could well be that your ECU is an AEB item with a different name on it.

From the pictures on the Bulgarian website, it doesn't look like any kind of AEB product. That doesn't rule out ECU failure of course ... but ... if it runs on gas (albeit with a minor misfire) it's unlikely to be the problem ; rule of thumb, they work or die completely.

The original misfire might well be mechanical - worn gas injectors. The failure to establish the diagnostic connection is more likely about communication ports or software versions.

Thanks for all the replies...I will try to clarify things a little looking at the certificate Reducer is Bigas,solenoid 12V MV,S inj system Bardolini.
If only somebody could interogate the system!! I have obtained the software and lead.A few weeks ago a local installer tried to look for me but the programme just crashed time and time again.The lead is usb connection to the computer and I have now been told I need a usb to serial converter??????? anyway tried again with my Pc running Vista the screen appears no problem but will not connect with car??I must add the original installer has no pc at the moment so cant help but is still insisting the problem is the car ignition but this has all been checked out.... I suppose at the end of the day I have been sold a @!## system,the annoying thing is the car runs perfect on petrol but switch to gas and it misses runs really rough..If anyone thinks they can help with this Pleese let me know I am really pissed off..I just need it checked out this has been going on for 4 months..

try some simple stuff like swapping gas injectors or the like to see if the fault moves and gap your plugs closer-an LED with 1000 ohm resistor in series will tell you if an output is there or not from the ECU-my money is on worn injectors as most ECU's are very reliable

If you can manage to get your software to work under Vista and using a USB to serial adapter, you will probably be the first person in the world to manage it. Modern operating systems and hardware are not designed to support what Microsoft describe as legacy equipment.

If you have the correct lead and software, I've got the computer and am in Peterborough. However, my experience of sequential systems is very limited so although I may be able to look at what the system is doing, interpretting may be a different matter.

GilbertD Thanks for your swift reply,I am prepared to try anything so your assistance would be invaluable..If you mail me tobus110@yahoo.co.uk i can phone you when suitable....[/url]

Diagnosing worn injectors without opening them up is not easy (nor is it on petrol injectors). It's really a case of eliminating other causes.
The actual effect is of mis-metering fuel, and unless all wear the same (never happens) the symptom will be that random cylinders get different sized dollops of fuel, with the size of the errors varying with demand.
If the oxygen sensor(s) are good and hot and in very good condition, and the software used supports a graphic trace of their signal, you may sometimes spot a jagged spiky trace rather than smooth wavy one at idle. Aged sensors give a smooth trace regardless, so don't assume that means all is well!

The simplest detector can be the lughole ... most worn injectors clatter horribly.

How can your installer have been PC-less for 4 months, have they retired?

Hi Rossko, I assume they borrow when they can or need to..Unfortunately I have no technical knowledge of lpg I can only say when it was running ok it was fine, just want to get back into that position again........