Dirty fuel?

Message

avid · #2 Post by **avid** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:49 pm

again today my car started playing up again......again the car cutting on on start (system trying to change to gas about 5 seconds after starting) and if you manually switch it to gas you have to be rolling at a fair speed, as you lose all power and then get the gas cut in with a jerk(almost like a bump start) twice today the gas would not cut in, and the car would switch back to petrol, and have the red light on the change over switch flashing fast. 3rd visit to Vauxhall I guess, but they don't seem to know whats wrong. Any ideas?

avid · #3 Post by **avid** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:55 pm

just to add, I have only done 110 miles since the last visit, and have only filled up once, so i think the dirty gas theroy is out of the window. I can hear the relay click as it tries to change to lpg. Any help would be appreciated, as I can't be without the car for another week Thanks <IMG SRC="http://www.my90.co.uk/lpgforum/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>

classicswede · #4 Post by **classicswede** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:27 pm

It is still quite possible that it is dirty gas. The problem that is being seen at the moment is oil contamination holding the injectors clossed when changing over making the engine stall. When hot this is not normaly such an evident problem.

avid · #5 Post by **avid** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:39 pm

Well if this is the case, and I have only filled up once since it was last in and cleaned, can the retailer of the gas be held responsible?

richy_boy · #6 Post by **richy_boy** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:48 pm

Can this REALLY be dirty gas? i.e. one tank full can block the injectors up? I thought it was a case of repeatedly using the same naff gas caused a build up of contaminents. Matt, if it can be proven that your care is suffering from dirty gas, and you have only put a load in from Morrisons you're damn right they can be held responsible. However, if it really was 'that dirty' I'd expect to be hearing from loads of local LPG users having problems. Rich

go_lpg · #7 Post by **go_lpg** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:23 am

I too doubt that 100 miles or so, even on a new tankful of dirty gas, could be bringing such rapid and catastrophic results. Matt, if the problems you are experiencing really are down to fuel contamination it is likely that this has built up over a period of time and simply cleaning out the vaporiser or injectors will only leave it to be gummed up again by contamination moving through the system from elsewhere. Your relays would still 'click' when changeover to gas is required by the system but if no gas supply is available (or cannot get through to where it is required due to blockage)the engine will either stall or the system will switch back to petrol, depending on how it works. The only way to be sure with any case of fuel contamination (really matters on Aircraft!)is to clean out the whole system, tank, pipes, filters, vaporiser and begin again with gas from another source. Some modern Diesels have to have a new pump, pipes, filter bodies, even a new fuel tank when fuel contamination strikes, for the reasons set out above. And do bear in mind that most dealers do not have LPG specialists in-house even if they sold Bi-fuel cars in the past. It was a tiny part of their business. In that way, 'dirty gas' might well be a euphamism for 'we haven't got a clue'.

avid · #8 Post by **avid** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:40 pm

Thanks everyone. I doubt that it is down to the gas as well to be honest. The vehicle is still under warranty (hence the dealer) the seem to just clean out the plunger and re pressure the system, it seems to work for a few weeks then goes again. To make things stranger it has been running fine today

go_lpg · #9 Post by **go_lpg** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:19 pm

Sounds like another cause altogether Matt.

avid · #10 Post by **avid** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:35 pm

yeah thats what i think.......now to try and make vauxhall get to the bottom of it before my warranty expires, thats the tricky bit

clk230 · #11 Post by **clk230** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:34 pm

You quite possibly have 2 seperate problems. First it must be said that Vauxhall factory fitted LPG systems are useless, they are difficult to keep in tune and very expensive to repair (600 quid for 4 injectors!). Second your favoured LPG provider has a problem with their supplies. Look for a greasy/waxy contamination that ruins your injectors. It looks like the usual 'heavy ends' tar deposit that builds up over time but cannot be dispersed with carb cleaner. I binned 4 Romano injectors today for exactly the same reason

lebesset · #12 Post by **lebesset** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:13 am

all sounds like a confirmation of KISS

avid · #13 Post by **avid** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:57 pm

thanks for that Steve, I would have no idea how to check the injectors. Is there proof that Morrisons have a contaminated suply? If so surley all the repair bills could be charged to them. Lebesset I have no idea what that means

clk230 · #14 Post by **clk230** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:15 am

You have a snowball in hells chance of forcing any major corporation into admitting liability. If you've got a fatter wallet than Shell, or access to a team of top ranking lawyers, be my guest. A dose of methanol in your tank, or regular filling from an LPG supply with this added, should help your problem.

avid · #15 Post by **avid** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:51 am

any ideas where i could fill with this?

avid · #16 Post by **avid** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:57 pm

Well back from another visit today. I changed supplier and the prob came back. So morrisons not to blame. They changed a pressure regulator and pressure valve today............so lets so how that works

clk230 · #17 Post by **clk230** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:39 pm

Yo Matt, contamination is a difficult to pin down. The dirty fuel you may have bought today may not cause a problem for some time. Imagine throwing a spoonful of grease into a petrol tank. It will melt, but over a period of time the grease will deposit itself in the fuel pump & carb/injectors. As I stated before: Normal long term contaminent in LPG systems (tar or 'heavy ends') will disperse with carb cleaner, this new problem does not go away that easily

brian_lee · #18 Post by **brian_lee** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:53 am

This addition of methanol is something I've never heard of - how do you find out if the supplier is adding it? Do Calor Gas depots have it? As for putting a dose in the tank, who does that, an lpg converter? Sounds like a good idea to do it once in a while.

avid · #19 Post by **avid** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:52 pm

well so far it's switching as good as it did when i first had the car....so fingers crossed

woody · #20 Post by **woody** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:48 pm

Hi Matt, firstly how old is your car and which model? From what you describe it is the earlier Necam system with a dosing unit and zero presssure regulators[injectors of a fashion.] If so , there are several regular problems that occur , non of which will break the bank. The Necam system contrary to CLK230 opinion are very good, however the Vauxhall dealerships are severely lacking in trained bodies to work on the LPG,resulting in your dilema. It might be worthwhile sudgesting to the dealership to allow you to get the vehicle rectified elsewhere and forward the bill. Look on the LPGA register for the installers who are Necam approved or ask Mike chapman at the LPGA. Hope this helps .The Necam system is light years in front of a lot of the generic systems available . Cheers Keith