Strange behaviour with romano N system

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oilburner · #1 Post by **oilburner** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:27 pm

hello i have been trying various things to get my 406 pug 3.0 V6 running something like. I have posted some problems before and would like to thank everyone for all the help and advise already received. As posted before it seems to run lumpy on slow running and idle. But this improves greatley after the car has warmed up and then been stood for 20 mins or so. running improves and idle improves running for 10 mins the letting car stand for 20 mins makes the car run better than if i drive for 30 mins straight. And also the car seem to run at its best when im on the last of the gas in the tank. about the last 20 miles before the gas runs out the car idles better and runs smoother. Any ideas would be fantastic as im not giving up this. Thank You

classicswede · #2 Post by **classicswede** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:19 pm

It sounds like it is running too rich at idle. This could be solved by reducing the injector size or dropping the gas pressure. The draw back of doing that is you could loose some top end. Unless romano have changed recently there injectors will not allow very low injection times. Mike

oilburner · #3 Post by **oilburner** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:06 pm

is it possibe if that is the case to replace injectors with others that allow lower injection times and could you reccomend any. I will try owering gas pressure at the moment it is about 98psi what would you reccomend taking it down to.

classicswede · #4 Post by **classicswede** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:00 pm

You will only be able to lower it to 0.8bar. Do you know what size nozzles you are running? The omvl injectors can be set to a lower time ( lowest 2ms ) But you will need the dream ecu to run them.

oilburner · #5 Post by **oilburner** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:00 am

the injectors are size B but when first installed it had C injectors but these were replaced due to the reasons you have said the lower limit of the injectors and the car overfueling on idle. Would i need a new ecu or can my ecu be programmed with the omvl software.and if i get a new ecu would the rest of the installation be ok.

classicswede · #6 Post by **classicswede** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:18 pm

You would need a omvl ecu and injectors. I would be happy to try it for. I dont think it would be right for you to pay for something if it will not work. Mike

gasspark · #7 Post by **gasspark** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:21 am

new romano injectors operate to 1.8ms. if the older type and your problem IS over fueling there are still two sizes of injectors smaller. The check with the older injectors is is the min inj duration less than 4 ms at idle if so then smaller injectors required if not then look elswhere surely your installer can help?

oilburner · #8 Post by **oilburner** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:19 pm

thank you for all this help its more than my installers are willing to do for me i have lost confidence in them. Would the new romano injectors with the lower duration times fit onto my system and if so how much am i looking at per injector. I would be able to fit them myself. I have checked the inj duration on the car and they are less than 4ms. Would it be better to go smaller or change to the newer injectors. would going even smaller affect the top end performance. Than You

steve_96 · #9 Post by **steve_96** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:27 pm

David, If you have the latest type Romano kit you cannot adjust gas pressure. The 'New' Romano injectors have been distributed for the last 6 months. If yours have all black plastic bodies and are single (not siamesed) them they are of the later type. They are capable of switching for less time (faster) than OMVL and others. They are the only type that may be stripped (singly)and cleaned by the owner or anyone that can wield a screwdriver. They do not have to be exchanged for 'calibrated' replacements in groups of 3 or 4 like others. To change the size of your later type Romano injectors all you need do is to unscrew the brass nipple from the base of the injector and fit replacment nipples in the size of choice. Only these nipples decide the 'size' of the injector. This is far cheaper than having to swap several individual injectors or whole rails in the case of other types. In any event, it would be wise to confirm any theory of incorrect injector size with the set up software as Romano is the only manufacturer that has a little display box showing whether the injectors are too small, correct or too large when it has seen some running results. The installer should have the above and a gas analyser (at least) to confirm or disprove rich mixture at any RPM and possibly a scanning device to watch the fuel trims. If he hasn't, then waste no more time and go to a Romano APPROVED installer as opposed to just an installer (quite a different animal in a few cases). AGWW will be able to point you in the right direction if you ring them on 0870 746 1262 or go to <a href="http://www.autogasworldwide.co.uk" target=_top>www.autogasworldwide.co.uk</a> Regards Steve <a href="http://www.go-lpg.co.uk" target=_top>www.go-lpg.co.uk</a>

gasspark · #10 Post by **gasspark** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:01 am

david, do you have the software? If not how are you measuring the pulse width, keep in mind the ECU gives a 4ms pulse and then pulses faster holding pulses <.2ms. If your using a dwell type meter meter it may not pick up the holding pulse.

oilburner · #11 Post by **oilburner** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:21 pm

it looks like mine isnt the newer type because you can adjust pressure with a 22mm spanner on the vapo. the installers were approved romano installers but they failed to detect that it was overfuelling due to the size of the injectors it was a guy from AGW that came to have a look at a vehicle they were having trouble with and he had a look at mine while he was there. they did change the injectors for me from C to B but it still dosnt feel right. I have reduced the gas pressure and this has helped it hasnt cut out on idle since but is still lumpy. the reason i got a bit annoyed with the installers is because they were telling me it was everything else other than there system being at fault. I changed the plugs/plug leads/coil pack/idle control valve/lambda sensor/coolant temp sensor/egr valve all this cost me about £400 i fitted them myself also. and they were still convinced it wasnt the lpg system. and when the guy from AGW told them that the injectors were trying to operate below 4ms he suggested trying smaller ones.They told me to come back the following week to have them fitted but when i got there no injectors were there 50 mile and a day off for nothing this was the second time i had made the journey for nothing the first time the fitter was off but nobody bothered to inform me wasting my time and all this after spending £2300 on the install.so this why i am trying to sort it out myself. i have always been very good with all aspects of car maintanance from engine rebuilds to transplanting fuel injection systems and even turbo charging one.sorry about the rant but hope this clears things up about the installer. i have the lead to connect to my pc and the software is risn2004. is there a newer version and would it be possible to use the newer injectors with my system.

oilburner · #12 Post by **oilburner** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:29 pm

here are a few pics of my system hope this helps <a href="http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b377/ ... 9/vapo.jpg" target="_blank">http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b377/ ... apo.jpg</a> <a href="http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b377/ ... g-risn.jpg" target="_blank">http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b377/ ... isn.jpg</a> <a href="http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b377/ ... ectors.jpg" target="_blank">http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b377/ ... ors.jpg</a>

steve_96 · #13 Post by **steve_96** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:07 pm

David, yours is RIS'N' as you are aware but it is not the latest type. You have the older type injectors and vaporiser (although there are many kits supplied with the eariler vap. and new type injectors). Ring AGWW to see if the later type (FAST)injectors will work with this system (we have never had to try it to find out). I suspect they will, but beware that the earlier software will probably be no use to you if you swap them. You may need the latest version otherwise it will not allow you to select 'Romano Fast' in the injector window. You seem to have had a rough ride and paid a lot more than we charge for the same job. I'm sure that those of us posting here will help if we can. Hopefully this might redeem the industry a little. Regards Steve <a href="http://www.go-lpg.co.uk" target=_top>www.go-lpg.co.uk</a>

oilburner · #14 Post by **oilburner** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:16 pm

thank you steve i have emailed agww to see if the new type injectors will work with my system. the software version i have does have the option of selecting "fast romano" on the injectors so hopefully that should be ok. another word on the installer though when i collected my car from them after the install and was checking the system at home. i noticed that there was no jubilee clip on the pipe leading from the vapourizer to the injector rail and that the pipe was split just before the connection with the injectr rail, and it was downhill all the way with them from then on. ill post reply from agww about injectors. what will i be looking at for a set of 6 injectors just a rough guide needed.

oilburner · #15 Post by **oilburner** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:48 pm

i emailed agww and they sent me this " The new injector are not available as replacements for the older aluminum ones. " now does this mean they wont work full stop or they just wont work without changing parameters in software and remapping. as my software has the option of selecting between the fast and normal injectors there should be a way of getting something to work. or would i need to replace to new vaporiser as well which i would be prepared to do as the car is really driving me mad.

oilburner · #16 Post by **oilburner** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:45 am

i emailed agww and they sent me this " The new injector are not available as replacements for the older aluminum ones. " now does this mean they wont work full stop or they just wont work without changing parameters in software and remapping. as my software has the option of selecting between the fast and normal injectors there should be a way of getting something to work. or would i need to replace to new vaporiser as well which i would be prepared to do as the car is really driving me mad.

classicswede · #17 Post by **classicswede** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:23 pm

On OMVL I can swap Between std and FAST injectors with all N systems. OMVL have had the fast injectors for over 2 years available and std for about 18 months. Its a shame romano were so slow catching on. If the firmware is the latest compatible with fast injectors then you should be able to do it. Mike

steve_96 · #18 Post by **steve_96** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:26 am

Yes Mike, Romano may have been a month or two later in releasing their FAST injectors but the extra wait was worth it. They got them right. All OMVL did was to swap the coils whereas Romano completely re engineered the whole injector from scratch. I suspect that what David actually means here is that AGWW will not swap new type injectors for older type injectors FOC. And why should they? Neither will OMVL. You might get the later coils if you plead, but you will not get new injectors.

oilburner · #20 Post by **oilburner** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:26 am

i am willing to pay for new injectors if this is what will get my car idleing and running as it should. what price am i looking at for a set of 6 new fast romano injectors and would they make a difference as so far i have paid out about £2600 for something that cuts out nearly everytime i stop the car. has anybody got a wireing diagram for the romano n system so i can check that they have wired the injectors up corretly.