LPG Discussion Forum

Hi lads,

I was planning to convert a car to LPG but when I found out the two LPG pumps in my area just closed made me think again.
The nearest LPG pump now is at 31 miles and the next one at 55 miles.

How far is your nearest LPG pump?

I'm lucky in as much as I've got 5 within 10 miles. One is a Flogas depot which sells at 78ppl but is only open Monday to Friday, 08:00 to 16:30. The others are all at around 105-108ppl so I try to avoid having to use them (or if I do, only put in as much as I need for my journey). Depending on what direction I'm travelling in, I've got 5 Morrisons, all at 78.9ppl, within 25 miles, so use them if I am going that way.

If one of your options is on a route you travel regularly (and is cheap), then it isn't too much of a problem to fill up when passing but to have to make a special journey is unlikely to be cost effective.

I have one within 4 miles but that is MFG so I don't use them because they are expensive, instead I fill up whenever I go to work which is often some 140 miles away. I haven't actually filled up locally for a very long time that is about 8 years or more.

My tip for you is, when having your car converted, get the biggest tank as possible to fit within the available space. This saves a great deal of hassle. My first LPG car 20 years ago had a very tiny tank and doing 40k miles a year, had to fill up at annoying rate. So from the next car, I always asked for the biggest tank possible to fit. My current estate car has a tank in the spare wheel well area but can do about 450 miles on that tank.

The area I am in is well served with LPG forecourts, a similar situation to Gilbert's (post #2 above), there are around 7 forecourts all within 10 miles of here and all but one of those has a decently low price.

Yet still, today I enquired at a local gas supplier company (in Doncaster around 10 miles from me) about how much they'd charge to supply me with 47kg (read 92 litre) bottles. They said £74 (including VAT) to swap one of their 47kg bottles on my doorstep (delivered to my door free of charge), which works out at just over 80p per litre for the gas. This gas supplier is an independent (not one of the big boys like Calor or Flogas) and understandably they'll only refill their own tanks (all suppliers will only refill their own tanks), which means paying a one-off surcharge of £60 for each of their tanks that I want to keep here. I could just keep one tank here - They told me that if I call them one day they'll come out and swap an empty tank for a full tank the next day, but I might prefer to pay the surcharge for 2 tanks so I can have 2 tanks here, just for the extra confidence in consistency of my at home supply / self filling ability. The surcharge is refundable - If I were to decide I didn't want their tank(s) anymore I could ask them to pick them up and they'd return the surcharge... so really the £60 is just my money they'd be holding in case I decided to make a log burner out of their tank etc, it's a totally reasonable surcharge.

So that would be my supply of gas for refilling my car at home sorted... And this was the first gas supplier I tried but even on this first enquiry the prices (especially including the free home delivery) seem reasonable and comparable to refuelling my car with LPG at (say) a Morrisons forecourt at their current prices, especially considering I wouldn't have to leave home to refuel. But I would also need a pump to pump the gas from the red bottles into my car. I could buy a new small pump now for around £600 (LPGautosupplies sells quite a few of these pumps according to Mick there) that would be capable of it, I might buy one of those little pumps, or I might hold out and see if I can buy a bigger / quicker / cheaper second hand (perhaps ex forecourt) pump.

I have no real need for home refuelling ability because, as said, I am well served with local forecourts. But as an installer I think I should do this to serve as an example to some of those in areas that are not well served by local forecourts. I know of people in areas such as (e.g.) the South Coast who say they converted to LPG 7 years ago when there was a local Shell etc they they've not had a local forecourt that sells LPG for a few years and their nearest forecourt sells gas at around £1 per litre... For those people it may be a great idea to set up a simple unobtrusive (no need for a massive bulk tank in a garden, just keep a 47kg bottle and little very portable pump at home) inexpensive and simple to set up home refuelling facility. I intend to do it to serve as an example and show such people that they can indeed refuel at home for similar to Morrisons (cheap) prices and run on LPG without needing a local forecourt. If they drive further afield they can fill up at forecourts they pass enroute to their destinations.

Not a bad idea but strictly speaking you should also inform HMRC of the amount you are using so they can charge you the road fuel duty onto the cost too. You may find that if you forego the home delivery and swap and empty bottle for a full one by taking it to the depot, the price may come down even more. I suppose it depends on how you are going to use the 92 litres. Putting 10 litres a time into a car that you have just converted for testing and calibration purposes means it would last a while, using it to fill your own car and you might find you are going through bottles at a frightening rate.

Gilbertd wrote: Fri Feb 24, 2023 10:26 pm Not a bad idea but strictly speaking you should also inform HMRC of the amount you are using so they can charge you the road fuel duty onto the cost too. You may find that if you forego the home delivery and swap and empty bottle for a full one by taking it to the depot, the price may come down even more. I suppose it depends on how you are going to use the 92 litres. Putting 10 litres a time into a car that you have just converted for testing and calibration purposes means it would last a while, using it to fill your own car and you might find you are going through bottles at a frightening rate.

I agree with the sentiments but would add that although I might use some of the gas for heating the garage and some for filling my car I might get some of the figures mixed up and if I made that mistake there'd be no way for HMRC to trace how much much gas I put in the car... Propane is propane, there is no trace element to it like there is with (say) red diesel. I would for sure use some of it for (what I call) rinsing new tanks (purging them of air) and then putting a couple of litres in for testing purposes in the yard before the trip to the forecourt for it's first full tank of gas. Heh, will admit that rinsing is a bit wasteful, I should probably invest in a vacuum pump.

My car's tank holds just under 90L and I use around that much gas every week, but a 47kg bottle holds 92L so one of those will give just over a full tank of gas for my car which would last me a week plus a bit. If, say, I hired (paid the surcharge for) 2 tanks to be here then I'd pump the small remainder / dregs after filling my car's tank from a 47kg bottle into a 3rd tank I have here until that was full then I'd pump from the dregs tank into my car's tank... Wouldn't want to be having exchange bottles I'd paid for collected as empties when they still contained some gas, I'd want to make sure I got to use all the gas I had paid for rather than sending tanks back that still contained gas I'd paid for.

I have a few gripes re government fuels policies and my conscience wouldn't be too badly affected if I found out I'd accidentally not declared / paid quite enough fuel duty. The fella I spoke to at the gas company was very down to earth, like a bloke I could do business with, I told him my true intentions and he told me he didn't care what I did with the gas just as long as I didn't damage the bottle I'd paid the surcharge for.

Would be nice to get an off the shelf pump, that you can use to decant from bottles, not found one

russellwheeler wrote: Sun Feb 26, 2023 8:55 pm Would be nice to get an off the shelf pump, that you can use to decant from bottles, not found one

Mick at Lpgautosupplies.co.uk has told me he's sold a fair few. https://lpgautosupplies.co.uk/shop/lpg- ... pump-240v/

That's an electric pump, albeit a comparatively (relative to forecourt pumps) slow one but it's small and portable. Still a fair chunk of money at £600. It is possible to buy / make (DIY) a hand pump at lower cost. Or try to buy a second hand ex-forecourt spec pump which might be a bit cheaper and good value for money but a bit more cumbersome.

Thanks, chaps I see still there is hope.
Simon, how could I get a quote for a conversion?

Marca602 wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 1:16 pm Simon, how could I get a quote for a conversion?

Yes, what's the make and model?

Jaguar XK8

Well, I guess its really the end of LPG, when LPG forecourts are been removed quite fast and installers don’t bother to give a quote.

Marca602 wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 2:15 pm Well, I guess its really the end of LPG, when LPG forecourts are been removed quite fast and installers don’t bother to give a quote.

£2900 @Marca602 assuming it's a 4L, I haven't replied because I didn't take your post seriously when you didn't mention which engine option it has (or will have if/when you buy one) and I'm busier now than I've ever been converting vehicles to LPG.

As explained above, your 'nearest pump' could be literally on your doorstep, gas delivered to your doorstep in red bottles for half the price you can buy petrol. If we look far enough forward into the future, when your nearest petrol forecourt is 30 miles away you could still be having LPG delivered to your doorstep for an even smaller fraction of the cost of petrol.

My nearest pump is 6 miles away and there are around 7 pumps closer than around 10 miles away, more than 7 if I look just a bit further than 10 miles.
But soon my nearest pump will be around 3 yards away from my front door, it will be in my yard and will be replenished whenever I want, it will cost me around the same as the cheapest of the 10 nearest pumps to use but I will be able to use it without having to visit any forecourt pump - I'll be having the facility to refuel at home, not because I need it (because as said I have 10 nearby forecourts) but to serve as example to people who don't have forecourts close to them. I won't need a big bulk storage tank in the yard to have this facility, I'll just need to have a 47kg red bottle that the supplier will collect when empty while delivering a full one. If I were to live long enough I'd expect to be able to still do that in 40 years time, perhaps when every petrol forecourt has disappeared.

LPGC wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 1:42 pm

Marca602 wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 1:16 pm Simon, how could I get a quote for a conversion?

Yes, what's the make and model?

Re: How far is your LPG pump?
#11 Post by Marca602 » Fri Mar 03, 2023 12:50 pm

Jaguar XK8

Re: How far is your LPG pump?
#13 Post by LPGC » Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:56 pm

£2900 @Marca602 assuming it's a 4L, I haven't replied because I didn't take your post seriously when you didn't mention which engine option it has (or will have if/when you buy one) and I'm busier now than I've ever been converting vehicles to LPG.

What was that all about? Your web is full of nice and friendly words, but actually this is how you treat potential customers? That’s good to know.
I don’t know what you need to give a quote. You are the professional here, not me. You asked “make and model” and that’s what I gave you. You did not mention engine. (There aren’t half dozen engines, there were just two, both V8).
I requested a quote in your web but you did not give either. We are all busy pal, you are not the only one. We should go somewhere else then and save time.

Re: How far is your LPG pump?
#6 Post by LPGC » Sat Feb 25, 2023 12:35 am

I have a few gripes re government fuels policies and my conscience wouldn't be too badly affected if I found out I'd accidentally not declared / paid quite enough fuel duty. The fella I spoke to at the gas company was very down to earth, like a bloke I could do business with, I told him my true intentions and he told me he didn't care what I did with the gas just as long as I didn't damage the bottle I'd paid the surcharge for.

About your idea for LPG pumps shortage, let’s see how many actually do it. It looks like a fraud; some people don’t like commit fraud.

“The average sentence length for ‘acting with intent to defraud the public revenue’ last year was five years and three months”.

“… the Government is also moving forward with legislation to make it a criminal offence for promoters of tax avoidance schemes to ignore an order from HMRC to stop promoting a tax avoidance scheme”.

https://www.theaccountant-online.com/n ... -doubled/

You quoted most of our above posts but left out this quote of yourself...

Marca602 wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 2:15 pm Well, I guess its really the end of LPG, when LPG forecourts are been removed quite fast and installers don’t bother to give a quote.

A bit antagonising. The way that reads you've already decided you don't want an LPG conversion and were having a pop at both the idea of LPG conversions and me personally, also a bit self-contradictory of your earlier post..

Marca602 wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 1:16 pm Thanks, chaps I see still there is hope.
Simon, how could I get a quote for a conversion?

Last off, you wrote this

Marca602 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:05 pm
About your idea for LPG pumps shortage, let’s see how many actually do it. It looks like a fraud; some people don’t like commit fraud.

“The average sentence length for ‘acting with intent to defraud the public revenue’ last year was five years and three months”.

“… the Government is also moving forward with legislation to make it a criminal offence for promoters of tax avoidance schemes to ignore an order from HMRC to stop promoting a tax avoidance scheme”.

https://www.theaccountant-online.com/n ... -doubled/

Also antagonising. We'd like more LPG pumps, I'd like to see an LPG pump on every forecourt but that's never been (and was never going to be) the case. I didn't say there was a shortage but it's true some areas have far more LPG forecourts than others. Having gas delivered to home in red bottles and filling our vehicles at home seems a handy facility to have, as said I'd like the facility even though there are plenty forecourts in my area (and I've never had a problem filling 3 vehicle tanks from empty every week for many years), even handier for those in areas that are not well served by LPG forecourts. Anyone can have gas delivered to their door in red bottles and pump it into their car, and if they pay the road duty on the gas that they pump into their car it is legal. Lots of people are doing it (insider information on number of pumps being sold) and I intend on doing it myself. If you're young enough and still own an internal combustion driven vehicle looking far enough into the future, running it on LPG may be your only option if/when forecourts stop selling petrol.