Major Problem - Starting from Cold - Honda Cr-V 03 plate

[dee]

Hi All, I bought my Honda CR-V in September 2013, and had it converted on 5 October (called LPG Tech), car had done 91K miles. I started having problems from July 2014. Also noticed engine management light was on. Kept cutting out when cold. Took it back to LPG installer(in August) who put hooked it up to computer. Made a few adjustments and said it should be ok now. It wasn't OK. Then took it to Honda dealership where I bought it from on 5 Sept. This is their report.

"Investigated vehicle cutting out and engine management light on - carried out diagnostic - found cylinders 1-3 reporting misfiring, and erratic air flow readings, tested for air leaks and found leak in a split vac hose, repaired hose, and fault repeated, removed injectors and tested - all ok, visual check into manifold and valve ports shows heavy oil build up, removed throttle housing and found heavy carbon build up and very damp. Removed inlet manifold to further inspect inlet valves and also found heavy carbon build up around valves and seats, cleaned all contamination from throttle body, inlet manifold and crank, pressure check vale. Refitted parts and road tested vehicle a lot better but if problem persists then possible engine re-build required. Engine management light remains on. We advise if vehicle remains in a drivable state to continue use and allow intake fuel cleaner time to remove any build up from inlet valves and to stop use of lpg for at least two fuel tanks with fuel additive/cleaner then if improve a lot come back for engine management light reset." = £360 = STILL CUTTING OUT !

I will be taking it back to LPG installer, but before I do I would like someone's advice/opinion as to the cause of the cutting out and carbon/oil build-up. I would have liked to attached the photos that they took but think files are too big. It shows the carbon/oil build up in the valves etc. My questions are: 1. is the LPG causing the build-up. 2. Roughly how much LPG valve saver should have been used after approx 9700 mile, I've still got 1/4 left from the original set-up. Thank you

[rich r]

I have a 2004 Honda CR-V with LPG, so the same sort of setup. Poor cold idle due to dirty throttle body is a common issue on this engine even without LPG. The CR-V owner's club forums are full of people with the problem. On mine (an automatic) I have to let it warm up a bit before doing low speed manoeuvres or it'll stall. So the issue may be completely unrelated to the LPG or valve lubricany. Similarly there can be an issue with the idle air bypass valve being dirty.

LPG is just propane, a very clean, dry gas. So it's unlikely to be causing a buildup of oil or carbon anywhere. The valve lubricant however may be, as could petrol though.

What sort of valve lubricant system is it and where is it injected? I had to fit it to mine, and did a lot of research to find where people used, as the complex inlet manifold doesn't really lend itself to single point injection after the throttle body. So what most of the European installers tend to go for is injecting it into each branch of the manifold, just before the gas injector nozzles. You should see a four-way splitter and four individual pipes for it. Assuming you've got Flashlube, the rate should be set as 1ml of lubricant for every 1 litre of LPG used. So an average 45 litre tank of LPG should use 45ml of lubricant. At a rough estimate, 9700 miles should have used over a litre of lubricant, ie getting on for three 400ml tankfuls. If it's not a Flashlube type system, then ignore this

[classicswede]

Rich is fairly spot on with his comments, the carbon build up is a common issue and nothing to do with running LPG infact LPG should give a lot less build up.

The valve saver is set too slow and needs the feed rate increasing I would say.

Has anyone actually checked the valve clearance on the engine?

[LPGC]

I agree with Rich and Classicswede regards the carbon and @!## in the manifold.

But how does it run in a morning if you only use petrol the day before?

Reckon the dealer, although maybe having best intentions, have inadvertently had your trousers down with the £360 bill and a future further charge for the MIL light reset...

Simon

[Gilbertd]

The don't say what fault code has bought the MIL on either. I suspect probably the multiple misfires and air flow readings caused by the split hose but surely they would have reset the codes to see if they were current or historic? That's the first thing I would have done......

[dee]

Hi All, Thank you for your replies. After reading a few Honda forum posts, coming to the conclusion not an lpg prob. Got it back from garage on Friday and only using petrol at the moment. Again this morning it kept cutting out. Also thinking maybe because I use the car mainly around town, and occasional long drive could be another reason for build-up. Don't know if it was a coincidence but last week before I took it into garage I did a around trip of approx 140 miles and noticed the engine management light went off. Unfortunately it came back on the next morning ! I've sent an email to LPG kit manufacturer for comments, but don't except a reply. I'm going to run it on petrol for a week with the gas treatment (Forte) to see if any improvement, if not, will take it to the LPG installer.

Yea, you're right - think they saw me coming, what to do though? Can kick myself for not researching conversion on CRV before buying it.
Is there anyone who has solved this problem?

Will keep you all updated. Thanks again..............

[rossko]

... coming to the conclusion not an lpg prob.
... will take it to the LPG installer.

I don't really follow the logic here. How do the folk on the Honda forum overcome their similar petrol-only problems?

[andy evans autogas]

I saw it mentioned earlier ... But definately check valve clearances / tappets. I've re-set the tappets on 2 Hondas in the past 3wks both with the same symptoms and expense to local "Honda technicians"

[rich r]

My CR-V's stalling when cold has just got a bit worse now. Once warmed up, it's absolutely fine on petrol or LPG though. I checked the valve clearances a couple of weeks ago so I guess I'll take a look at the throttle body this weekend.

[dee]

... coming to the conclusion not an lpg prob.
... will take it to the LPG installer.

I don't really follow the logic here. How do the folk on the Honda forum overcome their similar petrol-only problems?

Needs the 10k LPG service, also the flashlube isn't using as much as it should as per the usage on the bottle.

From the bits I've read on the Honda forum can't see any solutions.

[rich r]

Mine's a lot better now after cleaning the throttle body and throttle plate with carb cleaner. Not necessarily the solution with yours, but certainly worth a try.

You can adjust the Flashlube yourself if it's the vacuum type.You didn't answer when I asked, so I'll assume it is. On the bottle there's a screw (with a locknut) and a sight glass. With the engine idling, watch the sight glass - you should see drips. Count how many there are in a minute. Now undo the locknut and turn the screw to increase the number of drops maybe by half as much again. Then lock it off and see how much you're using now after say 20 litres of LPG usage. Then readjust a bit more or a bit less until you get the correct rate of 1ml per litre of LPG used.