LPG Discussion Forum

Hi,
did a DIY conversion a few months back and am finally getting round to notifying the DVLA. As there are no local offices any more I will have to post it to Swansea so has anyone got any tips on how to minimise the hassle with them?

I understand that I change the fuel type to GAS BI-FUEL and the taxation class to ALTERNATIVE FUEL CAR. Is this right?
The only documentation I currently have is the receipt for the kit off Tinley Tech, is this enough for them or is it a UKLPG only job?
I would have got mine certified already but my local one wants £120 to look at it which I think is a bit steep.

Danny

Fill in the change of fuel box on your V5 and send it to them with the Tinley Tech receipt, they will change the tax class (as long as the car is post April 2001 and on the sliding scale tax system). When I tried to change my Saab, when they did have local offices, I was told that they need to see an invoice from an installer or an invoice for the kit. As I had neither as the kit was on the car when I bought it, they didn't change mine.

I have just changed mine, they wanted the old V5, the current tax disc, Mot and insurance cert all posted to them. Together with a copy of the installers invoice with the engine or vin number on it. They cannot access the LPGUK register.
All came back within a week with a new tax disc.

That's another vehicle DIY converted to LPG, being officially accepted as safe by government, having had no sort of safety check by a competent person..

I'm not picking fault with Roperman at all... No offence to you mate. I sell DIY kits myself, give technical support and see the vehicle, or at least a set of pictures of the vehicle, when the install has been done.

What I am picking fault with here is the current lack of any sort of safety system except for the existence of a voluntary scheme and I am picking fault with people in this trade whom talk safety issues on this forum but at the same time back the current situation of only having a voluntary safety scheme.

Nobody here, or the government, know if Roperman has done a good/safe job of install or installed the system 'Toolless' style (Toolless being the screen-name of somebody on this forum - see his 'doing the LPG conversion my full report' thread). The next time Roperman's vehicle is subjected to any sort of check is likely to be when the vehicle goes for it's next MOT. If the LPG system is fastened onto the vehicle with blu-tack or fuel pipes are tie-wrapped to the exhaust manifold it will fail the MOT.. I have said it would be a good idea to make it compulsory for newly converted vehicles to have to go for an MOT, there should be a system where if the vehicle then passes the MOT the MOT man can then effect the change of fuel type on the V5. Insurers and DoT could then at least assume that vehicles having fuel types changed to LPG had been checked by someone used to checking vehicle safety.

Simon

LPGC wrote:That's another vehicle DIY converted to LPG, being officially accepted as safe by government, having had no sort of safety check by a competent person..

No it isn't, it's a Government department doing exactly what they are there for. It is a legal requirement to notify DVLA of any changes you have made to the vehicle. So if you paint it a different colour, you tell them, if you saw the roof off and turn it into a convertible, you tell them, if you remove half the seats (or in the case of a van, fit some extras), you tell them, if you change the engine for a bigger one, you tell them, if you change the engine for another identical one but with a different engine number, you tell them, if you take out a diesel engine and fit a petrol (which would change the tax band), you tell them and, if you change the fuel type, you tell them. All they are interested in is that the vehicle matches what the V5 says.

I could quite legitimately, and legally, take the V8 engine out of one of my Range Rovers and fit it where the back seats used to live in a diesel Nissan Micra. I would then have to inform DVLA of the change of fuel type, engine size, engine number and the reduction in the number of seats. They would amend the V5 to suit. It is not for them to say whether it is safe or not, that would be down to the MoT tester when it next needs testing.

Gilbert,

In the case of an LPG conversion they accept the notification, from anyone, without going on to require any sort of check by a competent person.
If you took the V8 out of your RangeRover and installed it in the back of a Nissan Micra they might justifiably require a further check on top of the MOT check. If you don't think they would require a different (maybe IVA) check on top of the MOT check then why do you and Rosko say the MOT check is only a condition check and cannot check modified vehicles? Go on to argue the MOT check is not fit to check LPG installs? Incidentally, my mates and I many years ago did take the V8 out of a RangeRover and installed it in a Reliant Robin...

I mention DVLA because everyone is familiar with it, for ease of reading, then... We have previously discussed, so you and I both know, that a department called DVSA took over from both DVLA and VOSA in April this year. So now we have one department that incorporates all of DVLAs and all of VOSAs responsibilities. Considering we now have one department that controls the MOT test, logbooks and driver records, seemingly it would not take much for the MOT scheme, just like I have suggested, to now cover the check of new LPG installs and effect the change of fuel type on the logbook at the same time.

But some people continue to say they think a voluntary check of new LPG installs (voluntary and maybe done by a self appointed trade body member), even for those fitted by DIYers, is better from a safety point of view than a mandatory MOT check by someone licensed by a government department. The same installers that talk most about safety on their websites and in conversations with customers totally disregard this basic failing because it is not in their own interests to highlight it.

Notably you didn't quote or care to mention the other things I said in the same post, like (self quote) "Nobody here, or the government, know if Roperman has done a good/safe job of install or installed the system 'Toolless' style (Toolless being the screen-name of somebody on this forum - see his 'doing the LPG conversion my full report' thread). The next time Roperman's vehicle is subjected to any sort of check is likely to be when the vehicle goes for it's next MOT".

Simon

LPGC wrote:In the case of an LPG conversion they accept the notification, from anyone, without going on to require any sort of check by a competent person.

That's right; it's a licensing issue, nothing technical.

EDIT: I was wrong, not quite right, reflecting on it. Notification has to come from the owner/keeper, the responsible person, and will not be accepted from anyone else. You can't tell them my car is now red.

I don't know if thats important, not always following the logic; but the MoT man can't change any registration details at present.

LPGC wrote:If you took the V8 out of your RangeRover and installed it in the back of a Nissan Micra they might justifiably require a further check on top of the MOT check.

Might they ... can you tell us what that process is, how it works? What check will they ask for, how is the requirement for that check triggered?

LPGC wrote: If you don't think they would require a different (maybe IVA) check on top of the MOT check then why do you and Rosko say the MOT check is only a condition check and cannot check modified vehicles?

I don't understand the question. If the MoT was all encompassing then there wouldn't be an IVA test at all. Clearly VCSA think these are two different things. Why not ask them instead of endless speculation?

LPGC wrote:... Go on to argue the MOT check is not fit to check LPG installs?

It isn't. It will miss basic leaks.
The MoT could be changed one day. Let us know when that has happened.

LPGC wrote:Considering we now have one department that controls the MOT test, logbooks and driver records, seemingly it would not take much for the MOT scheme, just like I have suggested, to now cover the check of new LPG installs and effect the change of fuel type on the logbook at the same time.

This is an idea you should propose to them. I think its cobblers, but its not my decision. You don't need our permission.

LPGC wrote:But some people continue to say they think a voluntary check of new LPG installs (voluntary and maybe done by a self appointed trade body member), even for those fitted by DIYers, is better from a safety point of view than a mandatory MOT check by someone licensed by a government department.

Better/worse, what matter. The existing scheme is today's reality. All else is supposition, hope or fantasy. No-one could possible think some scheme better than some other scheme without knowing what the other is, and it hasn't been invented yet.

LPGC wrote: The same installers that talk most about safety on their websites and in conversations with customers totally disregard this basic failing because it is not in their own interests to highlight it.

What installers? Highlight what, that if you don't use the safety scheme you could be unsafe? That perhaps one day the world might be different, but who knows when or how? Seems an odd conversation to have.

LPGC wrote:Notably you didn't quote or care to mention the other things I said in the same post, like (self quote) "Nobody here, or the government, know if Roperman has done a good/safe job of install ...

That's right. If he cares about it, he can get it inspected of course. His insurers may force that anyway, or they may not.

LPGC wrote:If you took the V8 out of your RangeRover and installed it in the back of a Nissan Micra they might justifiably require a further check on top of the MOT check.

Why? How would a data entry clerk know that if I was changing the cc from 1398 to 3950 and the engine number from XYZ123 to 123XYZ it would involve anything. It would be done by someone who simply enters data into a computer not by an engineer. It is simply an administrative alteration. I've had to have cars checked by DVLA on 4 occasions now and each time it was to ensure the car I was registering was the car I claimed it was. That's the only time DVLA get interested, if there is a hint of doubt that a car may not be the car someone says it is.

Of course the MoT can check modified vehicles or half the cars on the roads belonging to teenagers wouldn't be capable of getting an MoT. What it doesn't check is how well a modification has been done, only if it affects something that would cause it to fail a test. Maybe you should have a read through the MoT testers manual so you understand what is being tested and what is expected. You can find it here http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual/contents.htm.

Where's the Like button?