Tubbs wrote:Charlie Renard wrote:Simon, that just proves what a load of bunkum you write. Type 34's oare of totally different design to most injectors on the market, are very fast acting and accurate.
It is really annoying the way you spout your unproven inaccurate views all the time, why do you think you are god's gift to gas conversion when it is clear you actually dont know that much?
He is right though, you don't half spout some shit. Why do you feel e34's are so terrible ?
I do in the region of 70 cars a year I suppose. Been using emer pretty exclusively for 3 years. So that's 210 cars or more.
The total failures in that time ? 3 injector coils (2 on one car, chap was re filling from bottles so I put 2 filters in). I had a few gum up as winter set in initially. As soon as I set the change over time to 45 + 30 seconds it all went away.
2 cars I have opted to use different systems on. Mainly customer specified.
One being a 2.5 sti for bbstrikes again.
Twin turbo Toyota aristo.
I also used Hana's on a supercharged Lexi, but emer would have been absolutely fine tbh.
So yes they have their limits. Mainly the high powered 4 cylinder cars. As soon as you hit a 5,6 or 8 pot. They never have issues. Including turbo s cayenne peppers. AMG mercs / Audi rs4's etc. Not an issue.
Personally. I don't think any system out there comes close to that kind of reliability.
When I speak to my mates in the industry who fit BRC and Prins. Failure rates are considerably higher than that with similar output.
Your supplier had Charlie Renard remove his comment that you've quoted on pain of losing his job. I don't take kindly to you saying I talk shit but still I will show the same restraint and courtesies that I usually do in reply to your posts. Even your supplier of V34s admits they're not great in terms of peak flow - Nobody is saying they're shit injectors, they perform well on most applications but they have limits like all injectors... My main gripes with V34s are that they aren't great value for money and they are physically large for the performance. Large physical size would be a problem on the M5, small injectors will fit under the plenum to keep pipe lengths short, large injectors will not. Pipe lengths are important on the M5.
When I consider an injector for an application I make sure the injectors are capable of providing both a smooth idle and of flowing enough gas for maximum power operation. I've seen more than a few vehicles converted with injectors that cannot provide both a smooth idle and top end fueling, in which case the installer has of course gone for the smooth idle. I have seen some installs where it seems to me the installer may have calibrated the full load running, but not the combination of full load and high rpm...
It is possible to get a smooth idle on just about any engine even with shit injectors, reduce pressure/nozzles to get the injectors above their minimum working duration - but this can create full duty cycle issues on some installs. When I see a setup where at medium high loads the petrol duration is around 12ms and gas duration around 17ms then I know the engine will not run on gas at high rpm and high loads because the gas injectors will run out of duty cycle at higher rpms. When I see this on an engine that idles at 2.5ms Pinj / 4ms Ginj then I know the installer has probably calibrated like this because the gas injectors won't like running at lower duration.. Not usually a problem with V34s (although some cheaper injectors are better in this respect) but the next point can be a prob with V34s on performance installs... When I see an engine with 2.5ms Pinj / 3ms Ginj yet the injectors still have duty cycle problems at higher rpm/loads then it can be due to injector peak flow issues.
Why do you reckon increasing changeover temp to 45deg or adding a second filter will prevent injector coils from breaking?
A supercharged 5.5 litre V8 making 550bhp is likely more demanding in terms of injector performance as a 4 cylinder turbo engine that makes only 275bhp - The supercharger takes power from the crank, crank power is made entirely by burning fuel in the cylinder. The losses (exhaust pumping) associated with turbos are usually lower than the losses (crank turning) associated with superchargers, some of the energy that drives the turbo would otherwise have been wasted.
I have noticed you have fitted MJ injectors on some of your more demanding conversions instead of V34s, why's that then?
Incidentally, I convert a comparable number of vehicles to LPG as you but I use a wide range of components (including injectors) chosen to suit the spec of the vehicle. Out of the last 210 low/medium spec vehicles that I have converted with the cheaper (than V34) OMVL injectors, none have had injector problems - not 3 but none, and they all change to gas well below 45deg. Changing to LPG at a lower temp obviously saves the owner a bit more in fuel costs. You have mentioned a few fairly demanding vehicles - the majority of vehicles that I convert are demanding vehicles and on those models I don't fit V34s or OMVLs.
When you say 'personally I don't think (this that and the other)', well, you may think that, but then again you're not in a very good position to compare components if you always fit the same components or have only recently started to try other components - eh? You don't often seem to remember that Emer ECUs are produced by AEB and are almost (other than a few bits and a bit of firmware) identical to other AEB ECus such as King ECUs, that Emer34's (E34's) are actually made by Valtek (V34's) that Emer reducers are almost identical to OMVL CPRs... So do you reckon Emer ECUs are more reliable than King / Bigas / Zavoli / Romano / etc / etc ECUs? Emer reducers more reliable than OMVL reducers? You seem to be paying quite a premium for the same bits that you could've had with just a different sticker slapped on them - and making claims about reliability when you have little basis for comparison.
Just as well, then, that when you convert something demanding you've asked other pros for advice - and that advice seldom includes V34's? You quoted fitting a few different types of injectors like Hana on a few vehicles - Have you only started to fit Hana since your single supplier has started to sell them? Would you have fitted V34s if this supplier didn't supply them?
I have my own thoughts on Keihin and Brc injectors, but my thoughts are well informed, because I repair Prins (Keihin) and BRC systems too...
pyro225 wrote:I had mine originally with a romano kit and it ran flawlessly but needed to switch back to petrol at 5k. as they were individual they were easy to hide, and the vaporiser went in the front bumper so nicely hidden away.
I then upgraded to EMER rails as they stayed on gas all the time. these were mounted between the engine and bulkhead again completely out of site.
Hi mate, single injectors don't only make injectors 'easy to hide', they can also mean pipe lengths between injectors and manifold are very short and, as said above, small or individual injectors can be a major advantage on some engines, like the M5. I don't like any of the Romano injectors, but you haven't stated Romano nozzle sizes or V34 nozzle sizes. Good to hear you fitted Emer (V34) injectors and that fixed the duty cycle problem you (must have) had with the Romano's - but that doesn't mean that other injectors, maybe cheaper, wouldn't have worked even better... Hana, for instance, aren't much more expensive than V34s...
Simon
