just asking?

[ade-5]

hi folks hope were all well? im new to the site and new to lpg so please be patient lol. I have a 98 rangie 4.6 running on lpg, only had her a few weeks and impressive to say the least. ok couple of questions I dont really have a clue how it works and what should be there for an lpg system. its a donut 72ltr tank and sure its single point anything I should look out for or consider? when filling at the pump from letting the lpg run out I get alot of variation on how much it takez but I always let it run right out before filling up and also I get a machine gun affect on the pump im assume in tghats normal? the last thing would be my switch inside the car has lights on I assumed telling how much lpg I had but I think every time I start the car it thinks is still xmas and changes flashes ect. lol
Any help or advice would be massively appreciated
cheers Ade

[Gilbertd]

Machine gun noise is normal if you have multiple tanks but I doubt you have on a P38 with a toroidal. That, and the variation of how much gas it takes to fill suggests that the cut off inside the tank isn't working as it should and may be sticking. Not too much of a problem as long as it doesn't allow you to overfill beyond the 80% mark. Check the plate on the tank to see what the capacity is and only fill to 80% of that figure.

As for the lights we've no way of knowing what they should or shouldn't do without knowing who made the system. Assuming a single point it is likely to have some sort of lambda controller on it. There will be a fat hose from the vaporiser to the mixer in the intake (next to the throttle body). In this hose will be a valve of some sort. It may be a manual thumbscrew type (open loop, unlikely) or a stepper controlled valve with wires going to it (lambda controlled closed loop). Trace the cables back from this valve and the solenoid valve on the vaporiser and see where they go. Somewhere (often on the inner wing next to the battery) there will be the controller which will have a makers name and model on it. Then we'll be able to tell you what the lights should be doing and what they think they are telling you.

[ade-5]

had a quick look and theres leads leading to a couple of black box's next to the battery but not sure what im looking at to be honest. any pictures would be a massive help. another quick on as looking under the bonnet just noticed the air box is a little messy in the sence broken and battered. could this be lpg backfire causing this? and an solutions? thanks again complete novice lol

[Tubbs]

Take some pics, upload to photobucket, link them and we will all be able to see...and advise accordingly.

[Gilbertd]

had a quick look and theres leads leading to a couple of black box's next to the battery but not sure what im looking at to be honest.

There will probably be a controller and an injector emulator. Just read off what it says on the label. Pictures won't help you a lot as you could have one of any number of different manufacturers systems and they all look slightly different.

another quick on as looking under the bonnet just noticed the air box is a little messy in the sence broken and battered. could this be lpg backfire causing this? and an solutions?

Almost certainly, the airbox on my P38 has a nice crack down the back of it. There are a number of solutions, some more expensive than others. Because of the wasted spark ignition system used on a P38 Rangie, it is not recommended that they are fitted with a single point system. But, many were converted a few years ago when that was all that was available. So, the expensive solution is to keep the tank and replace the single point front end kit with a modern multipoint injection system. Next down comes reducing the likelihood of backfires by making sure is has a decent ignition system. Replace spark plugs regularly with NGK BPR6ES (good for around 10,000 miles) or Iridium NGK BPR6EiX (good for around 40,000 miles but more expensive) and treat it to a new set of HT leads. You don't have to spend a fortune on Magnecors or the like but don't get the cheapest you can lay your hands on, they are cheap for a reason. If you feel that a backfire is still going to happen anyway, you need to prevent it doing too much damage to the airbox and airflow sensor. While you can get blow off valves there isn't really anywhere sensible to fit one on the P38. The cheapskates answer is to cut a 30-40mm diameter hole in the trunking between the throttle body and airflow meter and then close it off with something that will be blown off. You could use a bit of plastic sheet held in place with a big elastic band or for the real cheapskates, just stick a bit of gaffer tape over the hole. Any excess pressure from a backfire will just blow it off.

[ade-5]

ok this is what I can read. on the wires HIS 004 BATCH M5348 on the switch box says EMMEGAS and else where says momana autogas? not a clue lol. and looks like new air box and maybe keep a spare lol

[Gilbertd]

Looks like you've got either one of these http://www.emmegas.net/product_info.php ... cts_id=395 or one of these http://www.emmegas.net/product_info.php ... cts_id=394. In the picture of that second one, the controller looks suspiciously like yet another rebadged AEB Leonardo.

[demonicwillow]

What about a cat flap backfire flapper fitted somewhere in the airbox like I have on the jeep ??

[ade-5]

these systems any good? and any idea on the level switch? just seems to change every time I switch of the engine like Christmas tree lights lol.

[ade-5]

What about a cat flap backfire flapper fitted somewhere in the airbox like I have on the jeep ??

sounds interesting. just how it sounds? flap that opens on backfire

[Gilbertd]

these systems any good? and any idea on the level switch? just seems to change every time I switch of the engine like Christmas tree lights lol.

If your controller is a rebadged AEB Leonardo, it's one of, if not, the best of it's kind. The only thing that suffers on a single point system is the vaporiser will age and need replacing at some point. Some makes are longer lasting than others, the original Lovato one that was on my LSE was pretty poor and not really up to the job of a 4.2 litre V8. I replaced it with an OMVL one the same as on my P38 and it transformed the car.

You may have an iffy connection from the gauge sender. There is a float inside the tank on an arm. This operates the shut off valve and also moves a small magnet. The magnet drives the gauge on the outside of the tank, which in turn, sends a signal to the controller to light the lights. The float arm can sometimes stick in one position or the gauge can die. Have a look and see what it reads when you fill up, when partly full and when empty.

I don't think there is anywhere suitable to fit a catflap flapper on the P38 airbox. It needs to go on a flat area and the only place you could fit it would be on the top. The problem then is that the bonnet would probably stop it from being able to open.

[ade-5]

cheers for the information really appreciative. sometime in the near future planning on taking it to a specialist to be serviced properly. and the leads look pretty new and il do the plugs shortly to try and decrease the risk of backfire happening over and over.

[demonicwillow]

As I didnt know what the P38 airbox looked like I googled it so many curvy bits and ridges, If it were possible couldnt some of the raised plastic gussets on the lid be trimmed off to allow one to be fitted, or cut out a piece of side and bond a flat piece in with good quality RTV and a few self tapping screws so it cant be over tightened to distort the flat plastic piece, then so a flap would fit ?? Squeezed mine in here, but its a different make box of course ... and im meaning the gussets on the P38 box similar to the ones on the side of mine in the pic ...

[Tubbs]

Just out of interest that flap will do pig all if you have a backfire. It will prolly shatter the airbox but the flap will remain intact on the side of the bit thats left. For them to be effective they need to be in the line of fire so to speak. So opposite the inlet tract pipe.

[demonicwillow]

it back fired about 3 weeks ago Tubbs, first lpg related backfire in nearly 3 years, was a very cold morning, the engine cut out, I whipped the bonnet up to check and its still all intact, seems to work fine.

[Tubbs]

It depends if it was a pop or a proper BANG ! When they go bang you will know about it. Everyone ducks for cover, small children run and the armed response unit turn up

[demonicwillow]

when it back fired yonks ago it was because the dizzy seized on the motorway and fired off a spark into an open chamber pulled onto the side of the motorway, just, and opened the bonnet to find a totally obliterated airbox but from inside the jeep it was just a teeny lil pop, the same pop I heard the other day, only the bottom box disintagrated as the lid blew off the top cos its massively strong, I do have a spare just incase, as long as I have a spare it wont explode, if I didnt then it probably would

[Tubbs]

My misses beetle went bang the other day. It's been great for 2 years. Running a zavoli core. Man it went bang. Air flow meter was ok. Airbox lid gone, the pipe for the air pump blew off, bottom of the airbox just shards of plastic then the air filter set on fire and melted everything else to it. On tesco car park ! Oh the joys of single point units. remember why I don't fit them now.
Fair play to her. She put the fire out with a bottle of water and got it home, on petrol. Well trained see.

[ade-5]

just out of intrest how much would it cost to convert a single to a multi system?

[Tubbs]

Depends what you go for. If you wanted to do it yourself or get someone to do it for you. Be into a minimum £600 I would say. Bits are upwards of £450 for a v8.