Engine surging and stalling when cold on lpg.

[volvobaggen]

Hello again lpg gurus. I´m having some issues with my professionally converted Volvo 1997 855 10v, it has a elpigaz sequential kit from April 2012. Have been driving 4000 km since the conversion.

It has been trouble free car until 2 weeks ago. It was a relatively cold morning, the car started normally on petrol, tickover was normal and almost unoticable after about 1.5 km. When stopping at a roundabout 200-300 metres later, the engine stalled on idle. I stressed out and changed over to petrol and accelerated without issues. I changed back to lpg while driving 1 kilometer later and the car behaved normally when im driving down the roads. I drove for another 450 kilometres without idling issues when engine was fully warmed up. No error codes.

I left the car sitting for 2 weeks, and it started instantly and normal on petrol. Drove for another 500 metres to check tire pressure and left the car idling. I believe tickover to lpg happened while I was outside the car, but I noticed no hunting or rough idle outside of the car. When I stepped back in the car, the check engine light was on, but I drove for another 300 km without the car or engine feeling any different. Sadly I didn´t have a functioning code reader, and I just deleted the code to see if it would come back. The next day I drove 150 km without any issues or error codes. During these two last runs I never had to leave the car to idle on cold engine.

Now I´m back home and the car exhibibts the same symtoms it had before with oscillations and stalling issues when idling and engine is still not at full operational temperature. When I depress the clutch while the engine is cold and on lpg, the idle is erratic and surges between 800 and down towards 300 where it is just about to stall if I dont press the throttle. If I change to petrol in this situation, problem disappears and the engine idles at 750.

I have cleaned the idle air control valve and throttle plate but it didn´t help. Im planning to change sparkplugs and gap them down to see if that helps. Does anyone have any ideas what could cause the problems of my beloved Volvo?

[rossko]

In the first instance, i'd take it back to the installer. You might need to leave it with them so they have an opportunity to see it cold.

Maybe the regulator isn't very good when cold, maybe it has a gunging up problem, maybe the petrol system has an overactive cold running strategy that the gas doesn't like, maybe the gas is set up a bit on the rich side which is exaggerated on cold running, maybe the gas injectors have some wax in them, maybe the coolant flow through the regulator is not so good, maybe the car has a slow heating or aged oxygen sensor ....

[volvobaggen]

Thanks Rossko, I will take it back to the installer when I get the chance. In the meantime I am tempted to do a blind oxygen sensor replacement, but those things are for sure not cheap.

[classicswede]

The early 10valve engines do seem to suffer with idle issues on LPG while cold from my experiance. The issue is caused by the pertol ecu engien temprature corrections. Your installer will need the advanced dongle for the elipaz system you have to adjust the correction values in the LPG ECU to compensate.

I very much doubt it is your lambda sensor causing the issue. The big problem with converting these cars is the petrol ecu data often can not be read even with the volvo software. If you can read the codes and live data for yours you are half way there to solving the issue.

[volvobaggen]

Wow, thanks for an excellent answer classicswede. The Fenix 5.2 system has allready given me headache when I purchased my first OBDII reader and thought it would work. Now Im building this crude flash code reader for the next time the check engine light appears.

Thanks again, I will have to chat with my installer about this issue the next time I see him. Maybe I can trick him into supplying me with a data cable and software for the lpg ecu also.

I converted the 1977 volvo 245 for my brother btw and we took it for a spin to Sweden here the other weekend. It´s a really enjoyable vehicle. The golf also runs smooth

regards
Ulf

[classicswede]

If he will not let you have a cable and software I can help you out with that.
Getting the dongle is not so easy.

Not many big bumper 240's left these days in the UK.

[volvobaggen]

Yes, a lot of these cars are dissapearing here as well, but they were so proliferent there is always a hidden gem stashed away in some garage or barn. Spare parts are very easy to find.

The 245 had a lot of blisters due to superficial rust in the paintwork, but we restored it to its former glory this summer at the same time that we lpg´ed it and undercoated it. Now it´s getting fitted extras such as the original 145 roofrack for winter equipment such as skis, and a rather rare m47 5-speed gearbox from the early 80´s with wire for the speedometer.

I will contact you if my fitter won´t sell me the cable and software.

Thanks again

[LPGC]

The early 10valve engines do seem to suffer with idle issues on LPG while cold from my experiance. The issue is caused by the pertol ecu engien temprature corrections. Your installer will need the advanced dongle for the elipaz system you have to adjust the correction values in the LPG ECU to compensate.

I very much doubt it is your lambda sensor causing the issue. The big problem with converting these cars is the petrol ecu data often can not be read even with the volvo software. If you can read the codes and live data for yours you are half way there to solving the issue.

Was going to write a similar reply then noticed you were on the case and knew then, without reading your post, what you'd have written!
When this guy has something to say, take note!
Think I'll have another can now.
Simon LPGC

[LPG Technology]

probably does not have the correction to the gas temperature, you can get around it by switching to gas manually when the engine will be hot

[LPG Technology]

This edition of the software does not need require a key ELPIGAZ 6.0.2.0 IC

[classicswede]

This edition of the software does not need require a key ELPIGAZ 6.0.2.0 IC

I've just check and you still need the key to make any temperature corrections

[LPG Technology]

This edition of the software does not need require a key ELPIGAZ 6.0.2.0 IC

I've just check and you still need the key to make any temperature corrections

Yes, you're right this version is only partially unlocked.

[arudge]

Hello all.
I have the exact same issue with a 1996 P38 V8 4.6 Range rover fitted with a Tartarini sequential system, now five years old. Always starts off the key perfectly on petrol but as soon as we changeover to LPG we get this surging, just as the original poster stated, 300-700rpm and stall. Fine when it's warm. Interestingly, when i drove just down the road today it was surging as i pulled up outside a shop, before going in i checked to see if the evaporators were cold but there were both hot, i did my shop, i was in there about 10 minuets but no surging when i came back to restart. I purposely waited the 20 seconds to changeover whilst stationary and it was fine.
I can't help thinking it is something to do with the petrol map, maybe it's too long coming off choke and the LPG doesn't like it. I have the Tartarini software and i have re-tuned it using the auto calibrate, doesn't make much difference.
Whats the common denominator between the Volvo and the Rangie?

Many thanks.
Andy.

[sijones]

Please start your own thread including as you have the full car details, lpg system and fault... it helps keep track of help on your particular issue!

[arudge]

Please start your own thread including as you have the full car details, lpg system and fault... it helps keep track of help on your particular issue!

Sorry, will do.