1997 Range Rover P38 4.6 HSE Gems V8 DIY install.

[MrGorsky]

Hello All,

I haven't been on here for a while, after DIYing my X300 Jag with help from this board, it's been running great for a few years now. Probably about 40,000 trouble free miles.

I now have two kids, need a bigger boot, and so I've bought a Range Rover that I plan to DIY convert using the gear taken out of my Jag, and buying the extra bits I need from Tinley Tech.

My question is, where is the best place (generally) to locate the nozzles, the vapouriser, the ECU and run the gas pipe from the tank?

I'm studying the engine bay quite a bit at the moment, and there's plenty of room, (and plenty of other stuff) in the engine bay, but if you've already done on of these cars and there is a good place to put stuff, I'd love to hear from you.

Many thanks in advance,

Al.

[Gilbertd]

Nozzles can go right next to the petrol injectors But you'll need to take the inlet manifold off to drill it). Vaporiser can go on the inner wing between the box containing the EAS bits and the other box containing the cruise control plenty of room there on a right hand drive car(although some people have squeezed it in next to the ABS gubbins on the drivers side). ECU fits very nicely on the inner wing beside the battery. My gas pipe runs along the inside of the nearside chassis rail with the EAS tubing. I plan on updating my P38 to mulitpoint later this year and have been thinking that getting 4 banks of 2 injectors will allow me to fit them to the plenum chamber bolts and have a pair at the front and a pair at the back on each side.

[MrGorsky]

Thank you for that.

I think I'll just do what you said.

I have seen an install with 4 injectors upright on the RHS (as you look at the engine) and 4 on the LHS but lying flat.

I'd like to find a way to get the vertical, so your front/ back idea sounds like it might be the way forward.

Thanks again,

Al.

[rossko]

Bear in mind your old kit will probably only have the wiring for six injectors

[MrGorsky]

Bear in mind your old kit will probably only have the wiring for six injectors

Cheers for that Rossko.

I've got a few extra bits to buy, two new injector rails, (or 4) for a start.

I think the wiring was all there before, but to make things neat I may have cut off short the cylinder 4, and 8 wires.

TT say they can re-supply just the loom if necessary so I'll probably buy a new one.

[mat_fenwick]

This is my installation in a Discovery - not great aesthetically but I've (just!) managed to fit in 2 banks of 4. I have deliberately angled the injectors slightly, as the outlet is at right angles to the shaft I wanted to help any heavy ends drain away.

[Gilbertd]

That's just what I want to avoid, huge great long hoses to cylinders 5 and 7. The RH bank isn't a problem as the injectors can sit central but the intake getting on the way on the LH bank means either long hoses to the two rearmost cylinders or using a pair of twin injector blocks with one at the front and one at the back.

[mat_fenwick]

I agree that banks of two would allow shorter hoses (and lkk better!), but all mine are the same length and under 300mm. The rearmost spuds (the holes for which had been drilled for the previous installation) are angled towards the front, whereas the others are more upright.

[MrGorsky]

Thanks for the two photos, that's helped no end.

Does anyone know of the legal/MOT situation if you were to remove the CATs?

Assuming I presented the car on LPG (and my local MOT place is run by a Rolls Royce owning LPGer) isn't it tested to lesser emissions thresholds?

Or will I be breaking the law every time I run the car on petrol.

I should point out I'd only bother if the CATs rotted, they're very expensive to replace, and I think if it came to it, I'd get them out.

[Gilbertd]

Since January if a car was fitted with a cat when manufactured, it must still have one fitted or it's a fail simply because it isn't there. You are quite right that if it is tested on LPG it doesn't need one, but it has to be there nevertheless. Unless of course you have the cat casings with nothing inside them......

[MrGorsky]

Unless of course you have the cat casings with nothing inside them......

.......I see.

[MrGorsky]

Okay, I'm just doing the electrics now and have a (very) confusing problem.

Using RAVE the Land Rover manufacturers official manual I've been locating and cutting my injector wires to install the connections to the gas ECU.

According to the manual the engine cylinders are laid out like this....

FRONT
2 1
4 3
6 5
8 7
REAR

So cylinder 1 is at the front of the engine on the left hand bank of cylinders, making the left hand bank bank 1.

However, looking at the Land Rover electrical troubleshooting manual the cylinders are laid out like this....At least the petrol injectors are numbered like this.

FRONT
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
REAR

So cylinder 1 is IN FACT at the front right hand bank of cylinders, making the right bank bank 1.

At first I thought just the wire colours were wrong (crappy Land Rover build quality maybe?), but I've just checked with the pins at the ECU end and they are correct, they even tally up with the circuit diagrams in RAVE so they have to be right.

Has anyone seen this before? And does it even matter, so long as I connect the gas injectors up to the correct petrol injector it'll still work right? I just don't understand the discrepancy that's all. Any help to clear my head is gratefully received!

I'm worried I'll have number 1 gas injector firing when number 2 should be.

Thanks in advance,

Al.

[MrGorsky]

It would appear I may have my left and right mixed up...?

Left is left as you sit in the car, not as you look at the engine.

If this is the case then it all makes sense, I'll just have to go over it all again to make sure I've got my bank one in the right place.

[Gilbertd]

I was about to say that, they always define left and right as when sitting in the driving seat. Left hand, as in nearside or passenger side on a RHD car is 1,3,5 and 7 so bank 1. Hence my comment earlier in this thread that the air intake on the left side means that a 4 way injector block mounted at the front could result in cylinders 5 and 7 needing longer hoses.

[MrGorsky]

Thanks for the clarification.

It makes complete sense now. The way they write it in the manual just says "cylinder 1 is on the left at the pulley end" and that's not very clear.

Anyhoo, I should be able to correct it by just plugging the gas injectors in in a different order. I'm going to have to double check my soldering just to make sure, and I've gone and put it all the sleeving that'll need taking apart now. Oh joy!

Anyway, the rest of it's going okay, I hope to do the first test run this weekend. Weather permitting.

Al.

[MrGorsky]

She's Alive!

Many thanks to you all for your help.

Connected up last night and auto-calibrated and it runs very well.

Tiny bit lumpy on idle perhaps, but I could try and improve that with the modify carb thing (can I?).

I have a BiGas N sequential kit from Tinley. I've found on the internet the OMVL Dream software that's been unlocked so I can access the fuel map page.

Question, although the two look very similar, identical in fact, can I use the OMVL software to connect to my BiGas ECU, or am I headed for a world of pain. Further, am I going to gain any advantage from the map page, or is this a bit beyond my amateur skills do you think.

Lastly, I have an OMVL 411034 level sensor fitted, and I can't seem to get it to work.

I'm not sure what sensor I should select in the software. I connected it up using the diagram on the front of the sensor bag.

ie
ECU white wire goes to level sensor white wire
ECU green wire not connected
Level sensor black wire to ground.

I may have a loose connection, but what should I enter in the ECU software to make it work?

Many thanks again,

Al.

[Gilbertd]

OMVL REG 1050 (411034): alternative resistive sensor for LPG systems; it’s reverse and ranges from 5 to 0 Volts so you will need to wire it for a 1050 (so you've wired it correctly) and you'll need to select 1050 in the software.

It's doubtful that the OMVL software will talk to a Bigas badged ECU. Although they are the same AEB 2568 ECU, they are loaded with different firmware to match the label on the front, so a Bigas badged one will only talk to the Bigas software, an OMVL badged one will only talk to the OMVL software, and so on.

[rossko]

Tiny bit lumpy on idle perhaps, but I could try and improve that with the modify carb thing (can I?).

Only if it is down to a fuelling issue, observe lambdas. Consider also worn or mismatched injectors, too-big injectors, crossed cylinder wiring, poor ignition (these really ought to have new OEM plug leads every 4 or 5 years), etc.
4.6 are never silky smooth at the best of times.

[MrGorsky]

Thank you very much for that Gilbertd. I'll change it when I get home tonight, hopefully I'll see a reading...and I'll bin the downloaded software.

Rossko, the idle is not that bad, it's certainly stable, just not quite as smooth as when on petrol, perhaps I should leave it.

With regard to the injectors, I've used the size that was suggested for my engine size and power (3mm I think) but the software is indicting they are (slightly) too big. I thought this might be down to the gas pressure in the rail being too high. What pressure would you suggest, I think it's at 1.9 bar at the moment.

I adjust that with an allen key either side of the vap don't I?

[Dualtech]

You adjust it on the allen keys as you said, but if you have 1.9bar when running on gas on a bigas reg then I would check you have your vap pipes connected correctly.
The ideal pressure will be when you have a tinj gas timing of about 4 mili seconds at idle. I would say on a 4.6 with 3.0mm rails that will be about 1.2-1.3 bar presure-ish.
Once you have set the presure, recalibrate the sysem then check that the tinj pet timings are the same running on gas as running on petrol at each given load range on the mod carb page.
If the petrol timing increases when switching to gas then the engine is running lean, if it decreases its running rich, adjust accordingly.