LPG range rover need advice on what to tell customer

[russ1]

Good evening

I have a 2004 range rover it to have a gearbox issue sorted and a coolant leak he had a
LPG system fitted afew weeks.

After noticing a few faults on the system I started looking in to it more have a look at the photos and
Let me now what you think




This was covered by this


Holes drilled but then plugged ( with air leaks I believe ) also bit hard to see but no clips on all
8 injector pipes


Blue plastic pipe runing from tank to solinoid ( rubbing on body etc )






The coolent leak

Ecu cable tied in


No 'p' clips fitted to pipes at all, filler pipe cable tied to the bumper

Thanks

Let me know what you think

[tommo2009]

was this a diy or professional install?

[tommo2009]

to add to that you should tell the customer that the install is a disgrace to LPG system installs and not only that,it is dangerous

[russ1]

It was a pro install I believe, as the customer doesn't know his way around cars at all


Thanks

[rossko]

The tank valve is hilarious. I take it the lemonade bottle half was glued to seal the hole?

Perhaps the kindest thing to say to the mug umm customer is that you don't think the install would pass an insurer's inspection. Wonder if they've even thought of telling their insurers ...

[Tubbs]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear ! What can you say. Just tell him there is no way that it would pass any type of inspection. Is the map / pressure sensor really upside down or is it just the camera angle ?
Get that sorted. Don't let it leave your workshop until it is. You can't let it go back out like that.

[russ1]

Yep the plastic bottle has been painted black and siliconed over the hole etc. The exhaust heat shield has also been cut through to let the tank fittings to exit the boot

Yeah the map sensor is upside down its not the camera angle.

Am I right in thinking that is should be plastic coated copper pipes from tank to the front end not plastic pipe.

They also seem to have broke the plastic hose that goes up to the brake servo and replaced the broken section with normal rubber pipe so when you start the car the vacum closes the pipe and stops a vacum going to the brakes. Just what you want with a 3 tonne car.

[Tubbs]

No the blue pipe is fine, it's pretty much what we all use nowadays, thank god !!

[sijones]

Wow, tidy install, where did he get it done, I need to know how long that took to throw in!...

[russ1]

Thank god about the blue plastic pipes. Not good that there rubbing on multiple places on the chassis tho!

Tbh the customer hasn't said who fitted the system and is away on holiday and I can't get in touch with him yet to find out.

Thanks for the help guys, bet he's going to be over the moon when he returns from holiday.

[rossko]

Don't let it leave your workshop until it is. You can't let it go back out like that.

That's a tricky one. You can't expect a non-LPG specialist to sort it out. You certainly can't go spending the customers money for them uninvited.
You or I would be in a slightly different position as LPG installers, we would be prats to let it out if we worked on the LPG. We're obliged to point out the issues and possible consequences, but it's the owners problem. I wouldn't work on the LPG to fix a fault for example, for my own professional protection, unless they agree to the rest to make it fit when it leaves.
But I can't stop em taking it away as-is. No more than the MoT man can control what people do with dangerous failures.

Non UKLPG folks may be interested to know that the registration database allows us 'approved' types to record really dangerous installs we may come across, to cover just this kind of situation ....

[tommo2009]

Rossko - what if this is on the register? if this was done by a registered installer then it there is nothing stopping him putting it on there.

I agree that you can't stop the customer taking the vehicle away, but you MUST inform them that the install is not in a servicable condition, is not fitted to regulations and is downright dangerous

[rossko]

Rossko - what if this is on the register? if this was done by a registered installer then it there is nothing stopping him putting it on there.

Maybe the OP would check the number plate at http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/ and let us know, before we enter one of those weird exchanges to "prove" it must all be UKLPGs fault.

[Dualtech]

If this was fitted by a "professional installer" (uklpg or not) then I would name and shame, there is no excuse for such dangerous fitting and people should be warned not to have there cars converted by someone with a complete disregard for safety. We have all seen cars with odd mistakes, but thats willfull!!.

[billynoband]

Those phoyos are amazing
Not only are the people who fitted it animals, they have also damaged the car.....criminally in my opinion.
Hopefully if it does go back on the road the next MOT tester will have the gump to see the pipework is dangerously fitted and uses their authority to condem it.
I can't believe they fitted a AEB kit. If your going to do a real bad job then best fit a cheaper system.

[Tubbs]

It's an AEB ecu. But with red valtek injectors and we dont really know if the reducer is gaffa taped onto the exhaust manifold do we.
Ross is right though, personally I would not let the car go, or if I did I would have disabled it ! As far as your situation russ it's a bit of a sticky one I suppose. If you are not an LPG specialist then it isn't really your look out. And if you aren't then you may not have enough of a clue about what the ins and outs are regarding a safe installation and the regulations surrounding it.
So probably your best option would be to recommend a visit to an LPG specialist. But not the so called specialist that fitted it eh !

[Gilbertd]

No matter, you don't need to be an LPG specialist to see that what has been done to that car is pretty dire. Russ has done exactly the right thing by asking the specialists just how bad it really is. What he now tells the owner is, as has been said, the difficult part. If it is a recent install then I would suggest a visit to Trading Standards which will almost certainly need to be followed by a visit to a competant installer to at least make it safe.

[russ1]

Update.

The customer has come back today ( earlier than expected ). To say he isn't happy is a understatement. I went through a few things that I thought was wrong and advised him to take it to a LPG specialist to have it checked and repaired.

He took the car home ( on petrol ) and I had a call from him to say he has been on to the phone to the installer and they are coming to pick the car up and check it and there going to get another specilist to check it, his argument about the plastic bottle was that any kind of plastic would burn in a fire, I have always believed that the tank fittings and pipes should be sealed from the inside of the car incase of a leak. The other reason the installer thinks I have complained about the system is because I used to work for land rover and anyone that works for land rover hates LPG.

I have fitted a DIY LPG kit to one of my cars and the only issue I had when I put it in for a safety check was the clips on the chassis ( they added 2 extra ones ) so although I am not by any means a specialist I have a rough idea on what a system should be that's why I was shocked to see someone had done this to someone else's car. Again with me not been a installer etc that's why I put info up on this forum and asked the advice of you lot that do this everyday

Rossko - what if this is on the register? if this was done by a registered installer then it there is nothing stopping him putting it on there.

Maybe the OP would check the number plate at http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/ and let us know, before we enter one of those weird exchanges to "prove" it must all be UKLPGs fault.

I have been on this site and it comes back to say that it's not on there. My customer says he has a certificate and has sent it to his insurer.

Many thanks for all your advice and help guess its down to the customer and installer now.

[rossko]

I have been on this site and it comes back to say that it's not on there. My customer says he has a certificate and has sent it to his insurer.

That'll be right, anyone can print their own certificate. Whether its fraudulent or not depends on what it actually says of course!. Thanks for looking

[Tubbs]

As long as the cert says that it does not comply with cop 11 in any way whatsoever, the so called proffesional installers would not be committing any kind of fraud