Subaru Outback 2005 Conversion

[Hloni]

This is so exciting seeing that someone else has tried it. A few months and tests later, is your 044 pump still working? I burned through X1 or is it x2 They seem to seize due to the lack of lubricant from the LPG I assume compared to any lubrication which might be prevalent in petrol? I doesn't make sense though as a car which is then parked for 3-6 months would most likely see the petrol evaporate completely from the 044 pump if used externally, and yet it happily pumps when one turns the key months and or even years later!

I have been rethinking my setup slightly...wanting to move the pump 100% externally like your test unit, and design a carry box for the pump and filter, and run a cigarette lighter socket on the car or something similar to power it with an inline fuse and also a relay setup.

Have you ever had your pump cavitating due to lack of flow from the inlet?

I don't think I have. What I've picked up though is a small loss of gas in the pipe system when trying to refill will cause the pump to really not pump.

[LPGC]

Still working fine and has pumped hundreds of litres of gas now.

How long have you been using a pump and how many litres do you reckon you've pumped?

[Gilbertd]

Those fuel pumps, when used for petrol, are always mounted low down as they don't self-prime, so the petrol inside them won't evaporate. I used one, or at least a similar type of pump, on a Range Rover Classic where the original in-tank pump had died and dropping the tank wasn't an option due to a wasps next behind the rear bumper. As the car only had to move a couple of miles under its own power, I strapped a petrol can to the back bumper but found the pump couldn't prime so had to add a priming bulb from a boat outboard motor.

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[LPGC]

The pumps do usually have a bit of self priming ability, I suppose otherwise they wouldn't be able to suck petrol out of a pipe feed that runs from the bottom of a fuel tank out the top and back down to the pump.

You'll know better than me if the fuel injected Classic Range Rover has a fuel return plumbed in, if it doesn't the lack of a fuel return could hinder self priming, external pumps for fuel injection pressures are normally used with a fuel return setup and pressure regulator on the engine fuel rail. Would think if it did have a fuel return it would empty the green can by pumping it's entire contents into the petrol tank in around a minute?

But with LPG it's a bit different anyway, the pressure in the gas bottle pushes liquid gas into the pump (and through the pump) even before it's turned on.

[Gilbertd]

Yes, the Classic does have a pressure regulator on the fuel rail and a return. The problem we had was that the car was at the top of a mountain in southern Spain and the road was too narrow, twisty and with adverse camber to risk coming down with the weight of the car trying to push me off the edge. So we cobbled that together so it could be driven down the mountain and loaded onto the trailer on the flat at the bottom. It managed it with just enough left in the can to be able to drive it onto the trailer. The cable you can see running from the pump underneath (fitted in the space where the fuel filter would normally be) up through the tailgate was plugged into the fag lighter socket so it was only powered when the ignition was on.

Hadn't thought about the gas pressure priming the pump when used with LPG but that makes perfect sense. I suspect with the gas we've been getting recently, the pump will get lots of lubrication......

[LPGC]

Yes I can see why it made sense to fix it so the engine would run for the trip down the mountain.

Bloody wasps nest must have been a handicap for rigging it up? A few years back there seemed to be a lot of wasps at my works when I was working outside. When I came to sell my last boat I found an old wasps nest inside it! Seemed they''d been using cardboard from the yard (LPG tank arrivals) to make the nest, no wonder I was buzzed by wasps a lot one year.

The thought about oil in gas (recently) helping pump longevity did occur to me... But I have to hope the oil in gas issue goes away, and since I now sell pump setups I hope the pumps last without the oil in gas lol!

I've reasoned like this... In normal use this kind of (decent quality) pump usually lasts well over 100000 miles, which we could say is around 3333 hours if average overall vehicle speed is around 30mph, which is a decent overall average speed that most vehicle components manufacturers base service life on for none speed related component wear. Most of these pumps are ethanol capable but with reduced life compared to pumping petrol. When these pump manufactures say 'pumping ethanol instead of petrol' they don't mean just pumping E5 or E10, they at least mean pumping E85 and some will mean pumping 100% ethanol E100. If 'reduced life on ethanol' means 1000 hours life instead of 3333 hours life, that's still a very long life for a pump that might be used for 30 minutes (90 litres) per week... A pump used for 30 minutes / 90 litres per week could be used for 40 years before doing 1000 hours. So, then, the consideration becomes how long the pump would last pumoing LPG compared to ethanol and it seems from reseach I've done that pumping LPG should be no harsher on the pump than pumping ethanol. But I'm quietly confident because I could be wrong by an order of magnitude and the punp would still last 4 years with decent heavy useage. They are sealed units, so it's not like they have some sort of bearings that could fail that could cause a seal to burst that would lead to an external leak, they'll either work or they won't but they won't leak.

I've setup a couple of LPG tanks in the yard, and occasionally when I'm at work I'll set up my own pump to pump LPG from one tank into the other and back again, just to test pump longevity in much the same way as Rolls Royce tested Merlin engines by running them continuously until something failed. So far so good!

I have in stock several completed pump setups ready to sell (some even already boxed up ready to ship) and some ready to build into setups. At some point soon I'll be using one of them to pump the old petol out of my boat petrol tank (filled in June) into my car, so I can refill the boat tank with fresh fuel... ready for when I've finished rebuilding and refiting it's engine lol.

We should have a chat on the phone again Gilbert.

[Hloni]

Still working fine and has pumped hundreds of litres of gas now.

How long have you been using a pump and how many litres do you reckon you've pumped?

I really only use this setup when I'm away on holiday and therefore away from my main home. I doubt I've done more than 300L on the current pump. I was under the impression that the old/original one seized/failed, but I think when I have time, I'll soak it in fuel and then give it a jump to see if it'll pump again.

[Hloni]

Hidden amongst the veggies is a 9kg bottle, inverted, and connected to the main thank.

When I got home and offloaded, the 9kg was empty and I had gas in the toroidal tank. Not sure if I'd advice this, but I was a little pressed for time and frustrated with my transfer rate of my pump.

[Hloni]

I'm thinking of wiring the switch to the pump upfront so I actually can run this setup on long night trips. I'd only stop to open the valve, and then continue driving. I'd probably run a 14kg(30L) which will give me a comfortable 3 extra hours on the highway.
Once gas runs out, will switch pump off and run on petrol.

[Hloni]

Car started misfiring/shuddering /jerking this week when running, hit the switch to petrol and it runs super smooth. Unfortunately the technician/installer is MIA, so I need to access the interface to see what's happening.

My USB interface cable has x3 wires

USB interface cable with x3 LED indicators on USB side.

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The diagnosis cable from the ECU has x4 wires

Port on vehicle

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I know the port works as the technician/installer used it on numerous occasions, so just wondering WHY I'm not picking up a signal on the programme. I've tried x2 different programmes, and both cannot connect to ECU. Any thoughts or ideas?

[Hloni]

Oh...I did change both filters, and to be honest, they were not in a bad state at all.
The jerking/misfire started out of the blue. It wasn't after refueling or anything. I have subsequently refueled as I was around 1/2 tank full.

[Hloni]

I've been trying to put together a list of autogas refueling stations around South Africa as I find them. Some are unconventional and refilling takes a LONG time as their main focus is portable cooking gas bottles.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Jqx63wkStG5KZESz8?g_st=aw

[Gilbertd]

They are already listed on mylpg.eu, see https://www.mylpg.eu/stations/south-africa/#map

[LPGC]

Did you get the interface/software working and get rid of the misfire?

[Hloni]

Did you get the interface/software working and get rid of the misfire?

I was unable to get the interphase working. The misfire disappeared, so not sure what caused it and why I had it. Been a few weeks now,and I've done quite a number of long distance trips already.

[Hloni]

They are already listed on mylpg.eu, see https://www.mylpg.eu/stations/south-africa/#map

This lists service stations that sells LPG in bottles, not autogas. Most service stations in South Africa exchange empty LPG bottles (namely 9/14/19kg) for pre-filled ones.
The list I shared is where a vehicle gets refilled with autogas.

[Gilbertd]

That's interesting, normally mylpg.eu only shows filling stations. But it is user editable so obviously someone has entered everywhere not realising what the purpose of the site is.

[Hloni]

Has been a while since last update. I can say, I've been doing more and more homework to find all sorts of solutions to lengthen my range, discover refueling stations, get an understanding of prices, plan my route so it passes gas stations.

Autogas is cheaper than cooking gas (alas the same thing in South Afrika), and because my current tank extension is through a 9kg or 19kg bottle (depending on my trip), I've made. A plan to be able to fill the cooking gas bottle at the filling station without raising an alarm

I'm yet to put thread tape on this, so not yet usable. Will test this week.

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I think this is really gonna make my life simpler.

I'm busy building a system for transferring LIQUID in bottles at home out of a 48kg. This will be for a setup I want to put at my parent's home.

Dual Valve

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This has a long pick-up that goes all the way to the bottom of the bottle thus picking up liquid at all times. The bottles with this pickup are used mainly by small scale LPG resellers as they can transfer into small bottles without the need of a pump. It has x2 outlet valves. Liquid and a gas. So you can use this directly to cook with or to transfer liquid.

[LPGC]

How will using the bottle filling adapter not raise alarm at a forecourt? I mean won't they still see you filling a bottle? If instead of the direct connection to the bottle the filler was fitted on the outside of the vehicle with a pipe running between that filling point and the bottle on the inside of the car the forecourt would assume you were filling your vehicle autogas tank not filling a bottle so wouldn't raise alarm. You could easily change the filling adapter to work like I've said.

I know you know about the danger of filling bottles to 100% full if you're not going to immediately start using gas out of them... But I think your setup would be OK in that regard because your intention is to run the engine directly from the red bottle as soon as you drive away from the forecourt?

The dual outlet (liquid and vapour) bottle valve is interesting and I can see how it would be of benefit to you and resellers in your area. It wouldn't be as much use here because we don't take our bottles to be refilled, instead we exchange our empty bottle for a full bottle, in fact the gas reseller/dealer usually delivers a full bottle and collects the empty bottle.

[Gilbertd]

That dual fitting for a bottle appears to be very similar, if not the same, to is what is used on an AC refrigerant bottle where the top outlet is used when recovering refrigerant which can be a mix of liquid and vapour, while the bottom take off is used when filling a system from it. They are rarely used as most people will use 2 bottles, one for recovered refrigerant and a second one full of clean refrigerant to fill. When filling all you do it put the bottle on the scales upside down. Scales are used as refrigerant is filled into a system by weight, put the bottle on the scales, zero the scales, and slowly dribble the refrigerant in until the scales show you have put the correct amount in.