LPG Discussion Forum

Having said how much bad advice we have here, do you have any concrete recommendations?

LPGC wrote:a lot of stuff

Most of which appears to be completely irrelevant to this thread, other than as a thinly disguised advert......

LPGC wrote:The engine is a Ford unit, uses Ford spec metal for the valves, so does need a valve lube system. The valve lube system needs to be an electronic forced type, because the vacuum types don't work when there's no engine vacuum. Being supercharged and high geared, there's no engine vacuum a lot of the time.

But at least this bit was relevant.

I do not claim to be an expert and the issue of flash lube is something that if I am honest has always concerned me, I think it is short sighted to tarnish all engines that are related to a given manufacturer the same way. The Ajv8 is a jaguar design and not a ford design in the same way that the duratec 1.8, 2.0 and 2.3 in line 4's are a mazda design engine, the 5cly used by ford is a volvo design and the 2.5 and 3.0 v6's used by jag are a ford design. Not to mention that the different variations are made in different plants around the world. It would therefore be illogical to say for example that because the 3.0 V6 is known to have issues that the v8 will aswell.

I took the advice from the installer who offered to fit a flash lube system but had confidence that it wasn't necessary for the V8 (and did themselves run a v8 without and had experience of 100+k engines that had managed without). Time will tell if this has been incorrect. I completely agree that if a system was to be fitted it would need to be a pumped one and introduced after the supercharger, otherwise you'd just gum up the charger. If I took a conservative approach and there was more space under the bonnet I would probably have gone for better safe than sorry and had one fitted.

I accept the logic that to drive the charger and produce 400hp at the fly the engine itself has to produce more (the power consumption of the charger is actually quite staggering). I also accept that the gas system I have will not cope on gas alone with the engine at anywhere near full power hence the use of petrol additions that start relatively low in the rev range with a small amount and increase. This is a compromise but after 18months of running since the conversion the savings on fuel costs are still significant and have paid for the conversion. I also suspect that the petrol additions will possibly go some way towards protecting the valves. What I don't know is if vsr was to occur typically how many miles would it take? Where electronic systems have been used how reliable are they and how many people are driving round with systems that have stopped working? Are they sometimes fitted as a belt and braces approach, is the requirement for valve lube more pronounced at high rpm, where there are more impacts per min between the valve and head and less opportunity for heat to dissipate? Hence a system such as twin vap prins where it remains on gas through the full power range would have more need for a flash lube system? On the real road unless driving well in excess of legal speeds I would challenge anyone to drive one of these cars hard for more than short periods of acceleration. If I ever get around to taking mine on track I'll more than likely use a tank full of super unleaded.

If some one wants to comment that they don't think the systems mentioned in the thread are appropriate it would be more useful if they suggested what they do believe would be suitable (with justification) rather than leave a contact which comes across as touting for business.

Glad I'm not the only one who grumps at "Jag V8 engines are Ford" stuff.
From an installers point of view, the V8 seems to fall into the "not sure" bracket regarding flashlube. I would say the horror stories revolve around the supercharge versions, so maybe it shows up under the greater stress, or different components are involved, or its down to poor fuelling after all. We would recommend lube (for the s/c) for peace of mind, are not really convinced that a good setup needs it - but not that confident it doesn't. Wooly eh.

I look around for Jag V12 from time to time ... also working on the basis that it is not possible to thrash one without killing yourself and the car, so all survivors are low-stressed

If the Jaguar car engine is definitely the same engine as the supercharged RRover, I can say with absolute certainty that Flashlube is needed.
I have experienced the painful and expensive results on one being run without - and, no, it wasn't running lean etc. ever !!

The Range Rover supercharged are know for valve issues and other running problems on petrol. The solution is to have the petrol ECU remapped to correct some of the problems in the original factory mapping.

The cause of the VSR is lean burning and even fitting a valve saver system does not cure the issue. The only way I have found is to remap the petrol ECU.

So assuming I need a flashlube, do I need one or two I.E. one for each bank. Also what should I expect to pay for the supply and install ? I've had an estimate from a local LPG installer and he is saying circa £1600 ?!?!

What is the installation for?

Sorry. I have a Jag 4.2 Supercharged running a BRC system. The £1600 was to install a flashlube system

Just for the flashlube??????

Gilbertd wrote:Just for the flashlube??????

Yes just for a flashlube. He says it will need one for each bank and due to the lack of space it will be very hard to install.

Comments on lean running on petrol are interesting. When looking at the setup with the guys who did my conversion they did comment that on petrol the map was quite lean in places. I assumed that this was probably due to mine having been remapped for performance when the charger pulley was changed. I would have assumed that maybe the RR install would run a different map to Jag with RR set up more for low end torque than outright hp but as it was used in the sport maybe this is not the case.

Does this mean that compared to the non SC versions of this engine you could expect different behaviour with respect to vsr.

As for flash lube price I was quoted an additional few hundred when having the conversion done, but the issue was where to put it. under the bonnet of the XK there is even less room than under the S type.

The comments about re-map sound interesting - classicswede, do you have a contact for the re-mapping?

AndyC wrote:Sorry. I have a Jag 4.2 Supercharged running a BRC system. The £1600 was to install a flashlube system

Is there an extra 0 in that price. I would expect aroun £200 max for electronic flashlube installed.

Charlie Renard wrote:The comments about re-map sound interesting - classicswede, do you have a contact for the re-mapping?

You can give me a call on 07824887160

Again just catching up with the forum this weekend and found this topic here are a couple of photos of a supercharged range rover I did about 6yrs ago, they do suffer with VSR and this one had new seats & valves fitted to it.


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And a video of it with the covers on

.http://youtu.be/XNytFQA4ttU

Ha ha just checked the dates of posts .... I wonder how they are still running

Pipe lengths between injectors and manifold nozzles look a bit long on that Supercharged Rangerover Andy

Here's a pic of one the many Supercharged RangeRovers I have converted, I convert so many of these that they've become routine. I installed an electronic Flashlube to help prevent VSR. The injectors are mounted low and at the side of the inlet manifold to keep pipe lengths short but they still fit under the engine cover to keep it looking neat and original...

This isn't the latest one I converted, the most recent was a few weeks ago but I seldom take pics of my installs. I now fit a different fuel return. This one has two MJ reducers, I sometimes fit one KME Gold reducer depending on the customer's requirements. This one runs totally on LPG even at full load and maximum rpm without any cutting back to petrol or petrol addition needed.




Simon
Lpgc

That was a photo of the first one I did about 6yrs ago that came in for its first service after about 60,000 miles. That one has e-gas on it with 2 e-gas regulators fitted and runs impeccably on gas also with no petrol addition and no switching back at full (or part load) like some I've seen coming in to me, also no fuel return or petrol re-map like some others, and no management issues.
Yes the front pipes are a bit long but doesn't cause any issues ,this one has had seats & valves done after about 20k on gas and I see it regularly as he lives around the corner from me so if there was a problem I'd know about it
http://youtu.be/9yieE7tWtfk

Just found this photo on file with the covers back on, I know you can't see anything but yes this was after conversion ....


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