LPG Discussion Forum

Actually, thinking about it, my LSE will probably not pass anyway. The tank is a vertical toroidal on the nearside rear (with the spare wheel in the same place on the offside) but both sides of it are open to the car interior. The fill and outlet pipes run through holes in the inner panel and the tank is covered with carpet spare wheel cover. As the centre hole on the tank is above the bottom of the rear window, it doesn't appear that it would be possible to box it in and make it gastight. I suppose it will never appear on the database then even if it is the only one of the three that has had the V5 changed to dual fuel.......

demonicwillow wrote:What is there in the way of revalidating competency certificates of pro installers ??

http://www.uklpg.org/how-to-become.php
"Regular inspections both to assist in maintaining standards and help with technical issues "
In this context, they're talking about inspecting installers and their work. Yes, they do carry it out.

demonicwillow wrote:I know the pipes are underneath are etc etc but thats it !!apart from a quick lookover after that nowt is checked, but I meant as a complete system,

What else is there to check though? Pipes, tank and the rest of the fuel system are checked for security and leaks with both the engine running and not. So if your fuel pump outlet leaks, or you have fuel dribbling out of an injector hose, it will fail. Other than checking markings on a tank, there's not much else that would be checked if the CoP11 standards were included.

The tests on boats you mention only apply to fare paying passenger carrying vessels though and I suspect the MoT test on buses is equally strict (I know the test for taxis is). For a privately owned boat, there's no checks at all (so if you want to fill the bilges with fuel vapour so it blows itself to pieces when you start the engine, that's your problem!).

The tank for my black jeep is like yours, but has covers that fix to each side allowing the pipes and cables to run thru the vents to outside, dunno if they are available as spares, ill see what make they are tomorrow.

Gilbertd wrote:The tests on boats you mention only apply to fare paying passenger carrying vessels though and I suspect the MoT test on buses is equally strict (I know the test for taxis is). For a privately owned boat, there's no checks at all (so if you want to fill the bilges with fuel vapour so it blows itself to pieces when you start the engine, that's your problem!).

Any commercial vessel must be tested, the majority of privately owned craft do get surveys in their lifetime at a point of sale although there are no requirements for annual inspections. but there again there is no need, although I do hope the requirement of basic competancy for skippers comes into effect in theis country one day, some right idiots out there let loose with 30 knot cannons

Hi all, well I’ve been for my inspection. Jaymic were very good they allowed me to watch and explained everything in detail 2 hours later and £100 down and I’m still not on the Database fail points as follows.
1 Fuel tank to low showing signs of grounding
2 Filler point to low and difficult to use
3 Reducer bracket insecure
4 Engine check light on this is a automatic emissions fail
5 CO2 saving less than 10% over petrol
6 Engine HC higher than petrol.
I now feel a complete idiot; my LPG conversion which I had thought was good value is now going to be the most expensive ever. Jaymic suggested I return to the original converter as they are not familiar with my kit they could not guarantee to cure the emissions. But as they have not been able to keep the engine check light out for more than a few days I’m not so sure. I don’t Know what to do who would be the best guy to sort out a AC Stag kit on a Chrysler Grand Voyager any suggestions ?

mylow wrote:Hi all, well I’ve been for my inspection. Jaymic were very good they allowed me to watch and explained everything in detail 2 hours later and £100 down and I’m still not on the Database fail points as follows.
1 Fuel tank to low showing signs of grounding
2 Filler point to low and difficult to use
3 Reducer bracket insecure
4 Engine check light on this is a automatic emissions fail
5 CO2 saving less than 10% over petrol
6 Engine HC higher than petrol.

So there you have it - two items witch are safety related, three which aren't, and one so-so. So this requirement to be on "the register" means that for totally non-safety-related items you would not get insurance from some companies.
Items 4 & 6 are a matter for the MoT, item 5 is a matter for the owner. None of them are anything to do with safety.

I'd argue that item 2 is a matter of opinion. It's either safe or not safe. If it's safe and the owner is happy to accept it then it's not an issue. If it's too low to be safe then they should say that, if it's not then it's a not a reason to fail (advise perhaps, but not fail). In any case, "too hard to use" is a very subjective matter - and having watched people struggling with those damn stupid Gasguard filler nozzles I find this quite amusing. Did you discuss it at all with Jaymic ?

Item 3 you should be able to sort out yourself. Item 1 may require the addition of a protection plate (aka skid plate).

I now feel a complete idiot; my LPG conversion which I had thought was good value is now going to be the most expensive ever. Jaymic suggested I return to the original converter as they are not familiar with my kit they could not guarantee to cure the emissions. But as they have not been able to keep the engine check light out for more than a few days I’m not so sure. I don’t Know what to do who would be the best guy to sort out a AC Stag kit on a Chrysler Grand Voyager any suggestions ?

Well for starters, you paid for a conversion which is not fit for purpose. The sale of gods and services act is quite clear on this - goods and services must be fit for purpose. The supplier is responsible for sorting this out.

You should go back to them and tell them that you are not satisfied and that you do not consider the conversion to be fit for purpose. Show them the inspection results (which prove that it isn't) and ask them what they intend to do about it. You have to be reasonable and allow them the opportunity to fix it - but if they don't then you several options, the two most likely ones being :
1) That they remove the conversion and return the car to it's original condition, and give you a full refund.
2) You are entitled to get someone else to fix it, and claim the cost of the original supplier.
Chances are, once you quote the magic words "sales of goods and services act" and "getting someone else to fix it at their expense" then you'll find them a bit more attentive to their needs.

Just a reminder that the current low(er) duty rate on LPG is dependant on the govt remaining convinced of LPG's emissions advantages over petrol.

rossko wrote:

mat_fenwick wrote:From the same website, where if you put in your vehicle reg. and it's not on the register, it comes up with:

If the LPG conversion was by the vehicle manufacturer this will be shown on the V5 Registration document in the model details (usually as Bi-fuel or Dual Fuel). If this is the case send a copy of the V5 page to UKLPG to arrange free entry for the Vehicle on the Register.

Fair dos, i hadn't spotted that bit. I have prompted for some clarification about this to go on the wordy explanatory page. I still maintain that "factory fitted" cars aren't "modified" and so are of no special interest to the insurers.

I emailed UKLPG for clarification and got this reply back just now:

Thank you for your enquiry

I regret that it is only eligible for free entry if the reference to duel fuel or bi-fuel is in the model details on the V5

It is not eligible if this appears in the fuel type – this only means that it is recorded as such with the DVLA to obtain the VED discount

Mike Chapman
Autogas Manager
UKLPG

However, my insurance company accepted the Certificate of Conformity I presented to them after my conversion just over two years ago. They were happy with it then and, as insurance renewal was just two months ago, they appear to be still happy with it now, so I'll certainly be shouting long and hard if they, at some stage in the future, say no because it's not on the register.

That makes sense.
If the V5 shows the model as LPG, it's a 'factory fit', not a conversion, not a modification.
It doesn't need to go on the register or be inspected, as it is already type-approved at the model level.

But if someone wanted such a vehicle on the register, they can have it put on for free if they like.

That explains why ours, which wasn't factory converted is showing as dual fuel on the V5 - in fuel type, NOT model details.

Fuel tank to low showing signs of grounding

Raises the question, is it too low in that it is below the 200mm(?) specified in COP 11 or just that it is showing signs of damage therefore is too low from a practical point of view as it is obviously at risk?
The reason I mention it is that with any underslung tank there is a risk (however slight) of damage, increased if your vehicle is a 4x4 used in the rough (I realise yours isn't). Food for thought and perhaps a grey area?

rossko wrote:Just a reminder that the current low(er) duty rate on LPG is dependant on the govt remaining convinced of LPG's emissions advantages over petrol.

Which is also not relevant to insurance.