LPG Discussion Forum

No. Its due to Flogas being a bunch of incompetent twats. Its a good example of why competition should be allowed, as they are the only supplier with a pump round this way for 25 miles in any direction, they can treat their end customers with comtempt. The closest alternative that isn't supplied by Flogas is the Esso at Flamstead. I don't use that garage as they only have 1 of the two pumps working, and its badly laid out with barely enough room to get cars on both pumps in that lane and actually get out of the car. As well as expensive to boot.

The local shell is still out - and has been since the start of February. No clue from them as to when they might have a fresh supply. MFG might still have some, I've got enough in the car for Monday at the moment, might be able to get some on the way back from Burnham on sea if I'm lucky.

I can't see how any domestic customers could be running low on gas at this point in time - the winter hasn't been that cold to justify there being a problem round here.

On a side note, just filled up a petrol can to mow the lawn and it took £8.95 to fill it

Brian_H wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 9:21 pm On a side note, just filled up a petrol can to mow the lawn and it took £8.95 to fill it :!:

I've got a boat with a 4.3 litre inboard V6 and a 150 litre petrol tank, Gulp......

Brian_H wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 9:21 pm No. Its due to Flogas being a bunch of incompetent twats. Its a good example of why competition should be allowed, as they are the only supplier with a pump round this way for 25 miles in any direction, they can treat their end customers with comtempt. The closest alternative that isn't supplied by Flogas is the Esso at Flamstead. I don't use that garage as they only have 1 of the two pumps working, and its badly laid out with barely enough room to get cars on both pumps in that lane and actually get out of the car. As well as expensive to boot.

The local shell is still out - and has been since the start of February. No clue from them as to when they might have a fresh supply. MFG might still have some, I've got enough in the car for Monday at the moment, might be able to get some on the way back from Burnham on sea if I'm lucky.

I can't see how any domestic customers could be running low on gas at this point in time - the winter hasn't been that cold to justify there being a problem round here.

On a side note, just filled up a petrol can to mow the lawn and it took £8.95 to fill it

I'm trying to understand the problem,., I have read that a lot of home LPG users had ordered refills to beat price rises, a sudden unanticipated rise in demand from them, which saw Flogas trying to catch up with deliveries (while prioritising home gas users)? Or is there a lack of supply? Or are they just incompetent? I understand that those home customers won't be using much gas now the weather is warming... but if they have all jumped in to beat price rises? Still we would think Flogas would say "OK we will sell you gas at X price but unless you're short on gas now we'll deliver it next month because we have to keep forecourts in stock of gas too'.

Gilbertd wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 10:49 pm

I've got a boat with a 4.3 litre inboard V6 and a 150 litre petrol tank, Gulp......
[/quote]

Convert it to LPG Erm... For when you can get some.

LPGC wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:06 pm I'm trying to understand the problem,., I have read that a lot of home LPG users had ordered refills to beat price rises, a sudden unanticipated rise in demand from them, which saw Flogas trying to catch up with deliveries (while prioritising home gas users)? Or is there a lack of supply? Or are they just incompetent? I understand that those home customers won't be using much gas now the weather is warming... but if they have all jumped in to beat price rises? Still we would think Flogas would say "OK we will sell you gas at X price but unless you're short on gas now we'll deliver it next month because we have to keep forecourts in stock of gas too'.

They won't be using as much now but they've got a full tank at last months price so they'll be happy. I suspect they make more profit on domestic supplies too so they'll take priority.

Gilbertd wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 10:49 pm I've got a boat with a 4.3 litre inboard V6 and a 150 litre petrol tank, Gulp......

LPGC wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:06 pm Convert it to LPG :-) Erm... For when you can get some.

Not sure where I'd put the tank(s) (it's a 1996 Bayliner Capri 2050 Bowrider) and have you seen the requirements for LPG in boats when they go for the Boat Safety Scheme inspection? Makes CoP11 and the MoT test look pretty feeble. It's probably different these days from when you were playing with boats. If I want to use a public slipway on the coast, I need to show a qualification to show I can handle the boat, third party insurance and the BSS certificate. If there is any chance I may take it out of territorial waters then it needs to be on the Small Ships Register with the SSR number displayed too.

pretty boat !

It is, bought it for about 30% of the going rate as it is right up my street, cosmetically near perfect but with a blown engine and knackered trailer. Had to fit new wheel bearings and tyres on the trailer and remove the brake shoes as they had no linings left before I could tow it home. Engine had been run out of the water so both heads were cracked and everything in the exhaust path was burnt away. Much of it is rubber so would normally have the cooling water spat out with the exhaust to keep it all cool. Got two replacement bare heads that I'm getting ready to put on it, one is built up while the other is on the bench while I'm partway through lapping the new valves in. Motor is a 4.3 litre V6 and is 3/4 of a 5.8 litre small block Chevy, all cast iron and a pretty horrible design too.

Looks great Richard!

I once very nearly bought what I believe was the same model boat with same engine, it was in the water at Acaster Malbis on the Ouse near York when I went to launch my smaller boat.

You can glass brackets in to support the tank in place etc, obviously needs a bilge blower.

Have converted and worked on boats e.g. Mastercrafts but mostly for inland lakes use and not for a few years now.

Enjoy that mate

LPGC wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:06 pm

Brian_H wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 9:21 pm No. Its due to Flogas being a bunch of incompetent twats. Its a good example of why competition should be allowed, as they are the only supplier with a pump round this way for 25 miles in any direction, they can treat their end customers with comtempt. The closest alternative that isn't supplied by Flogas is the Esso at Flamstead. I don't use that garage as they only have 1 of the two pumps working, and its badly laid out with barely enough room to get cars on both pumps in that lane and actually get out of the car. As well as expensive to boot.

The local shell is still out - and has been since the start of February. No clue from them as to when they might have a fresh supply. MFG might still have some, I've got enough in the car for Monday at the moment, might be able to get some on the way back from Burnham on sea if I'm lucky.

I can't see how any domestic customers could be running low on gas at this point in time - the winter hasn't been that cold to justify there being a problem round here.

On a side note, just filled up a petrol can to mow the lawn and it took £8.95 to fill it

I'm trying to understand the problem,., I have read that a lot of home LPG users had ordered refills to beat price rises, a sudden unanticipated rise in demand from them, which saw Flogas trying to catch up with deliveries (while prioritising home gas users)? Or is there a lack of supply? Or are they just incompetent? I understand that those home customers won't be using much gas now the weather is warming... but if they have all jumped in to beat price rises? Still we would think Flogas would say "OK we will sell you gas at X price but unless you're short on gas now we'll deliver it next month because we have to keep forecourts in stock of gas too'.

Gilbertd wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 10:49 pm

I've got a boat with a 4.3 litre inboard V6 and a 150 litre petrol tank, Gulp......

Convert it to LPG Erm... For when you can get some.
[/quote]

Wish I knew. One thing Flogas are awful at is communication. As a keysite customer, you'd think they might actually tell you when they plan to/have closed a keysite you've used, but they never seem to bother. I just don't think they value autogas customers.

I've asked in Shell here - and they don't have a clue whats going on, or when delivery can be expected. MFG across town, also flogas, seems to have a sporadic supply but is hardly reliable and now at £1 a litre.

I've tried to fill up at Gordano services, Asda and Morrisons at Cribbs Causeway and Leigh Delemere services on the way back tonight, every one of them is out. The only place that had anything was Applegreen at Swindon. Used to drive past 4 more lpg outlets on that route that have all stopped as well (not counting a couple of daytime only places as well, which have also gone).

I had the run-around tonight. Needed to fill a customer car I'd just converted then calibrate it. Usually a customer who dropped off on a Monday morning would collect on a Wednesday morning but this customer had only planned a one night stay so 'would I be able to pick it up Tuesday evening please?'. I went to Morrisons York Road Doncaster, yellow signs on the pumps there, went to the Texaco over the road, yellow signs on the pumps there. Phone Redbeck filling station on the A638 towards Wakefield... 'Yes we have some LPG', got there and only managed to get 20p worth in, then the kiosk guy checks his tank and says 'Sorry its empty'. (I hate it when firms do that, just want you to visit in case they can manage to sell you something/anything). Phone Morrisons customer support 'Which Morrisons close-ish to Wakefield have LPG in stock please?'. 10 Minute phone call... 'Which specific Morrisons shall I check'. 'Dewsbury Rd Wakefield, Barnsley, and any more that are close please'. 'Sorry Dewsbury Rd and Barnsley are out of stock'. Finally got some from BP Glasshoughton at 84p, calibrated on the way back to base, did paperwork, picked the customer up from the station. According to the Morrisons support staff the local ones will be re-stocked before midnight tonight, fingers crossed..

Morrisons are more likly to be in stock as they are supplied by Calor, though suspect they are finding a fair amount of demand as well. Managed to fill at Sainsburys Cobham today, only other station I've been past is Chievely services on the m4/a34 (which were out).

If I were a buyer for a chain of forecourts, or maybe even for just a single forecourt, then if it did seem I needed to have a contract with one specific supplier (and I'd first question why I should be tied to one supplier) then I'd aim to have a contract which stipulated that if the supplier couldn't supply within X days of my initial requirement I would be free to buy from elsewhere and my next order would be discounted. Not only are Flogas letting end users down, also the forecourts that only buy from Flogas are letting end users down. They all need to pull their socks up. Perhaps the whole supply system needs a new outlook too, it would be crazy for (say) Calor to refuse an order from a forecourt that they know must have suitable/safe equipment just because they don't hav e a contract with that forecourt/chain. That's not how business usually works but the business of LPG supply doesn't seem to follow usual or common sense business practices.

No, it operates in a way that would be close to being a cartel in other fields of business. Another example of UKLPG being nothing but a waste of space really unfortunately.

Trouble is between them Calor and Flogas have absorbed most of the competition - you only have to look at their lists of bottles they will take back

https://www.flogas.co.uk/gas-bottles/brands
And https://www.calor.co.uk/gas-bottles/ref ... ns/refills - Expand the bit "Can I exchange a bottle not owned by Calor"

To realise whats happened with a lot of the suppliers that used to be about.

I agree that the bulk side it should be down to the forecourt to fill from whoever can supply them, though I think its more a case the tanks are leased/rented from the supplier rather than owned. But then looking how long it took them to replace 3 tanks at the local site to me this time last year, it seems even that was painfully slow, taking around 3 months to go from notices going up saying do not fill the tanks on the compound, to acutally having any gas to dispense in the new tanks.

I agree with all of that Bri.

This PDF is interesting https://www.liquidgasuk.org/uploads/DOC ... E46F80.pdf

In 2006 the Competition Commission forced gas suppliers to allow home use customers to fill their home tanks using any supplier after the tank had been fitted X years, and/or to own their own tank and switch suppliers at will (I've read another document that explained the details including X but haven't been able to find it again to link to it here). But the trade body seems to want to dissuade customers from doing so. Then if we have a situation in which suppliers have made an agreement in which they jointly agree to refuse to fill each others tanks (probably citing 'safety reasons') it certainly does smack of a cartel. As the name implies the Competition Commission's purpose was to deal with 'Anti-competitive behaviour and issues with market sectors'.

In other industries suppliers given the green light by government to supply customers that had previously been tied to a different supplier the suppliers would be chomping at the bit to poach each others old customers... But it seems in this industry they're hardly chomping at the bit, instead they're refusing to supply such customers or creating an obstacle course of red tape.

It would be nice to see some forecourts own their own tanks and for some new suppliers to help them see the difference between legal obligations and what was just old supplier's red tape and cartel like behaviour.

Flogas don't really help their own cause - Having filled at Sainsburys Cobham today, just as I was making payment the staff went into a mad panic over not allowing a customer to fill with an adaptor. The vehicle in question was a Dacia so would most likely be a factory fit (theirs uses an adaptor as the filler is inside the petrol filler flap area).

It seems somewhat absurd that they are so over the top about what is a vehicle that can be brought from a forecourt being able to fill up at their sites, given this is likely to be one of the cars you'd see a number of for that very reason for a few years to go yet.

On another note, I see Birmingham autogas is now showing a pump price of 90p/litre. Even the local Shell has put their price up (though only by 2p so far) though given they haven't had a drop to sell since the start of February doesn't really matter.

Yes, I've been asked by a few Dacia owners if I can fit them a different kind of filler. 'Don't use adapters' is another bit of advice stemming from UKLPG. But every UKLPG member who runs an LPG converted vehicle (probably every one of their installer members) and takes it abroad will use an adapter to refuel... Hypocrisy lol! And every foreign visitor who brings their LPG converted vehicle to the UK will use an adapter to refuel here. The fact that the Dacia got through vehicle type testing with an LPG filling point that requires use of an adapter kind of shows how UKLPG's supposed safety advice is not on the same page as the rules and regulations that do matter (the statutory stuff).

I take it you could actually fit two fillers of different types with the right plumbing arrangements?

It can be done for sure but it's something you just don't see even on UKLPG member installers vehicles who do take their cars abroad.

Probably because adapters are a way of life in Europe. While France, Italy and everywhere east of Germany use the Italian cup, Belgium and Germany use the Acme thread and Holland uses the same bayonet as we do. The pumps at filling stations in Belgium near to the Dutch border have Acme fillers on one side and bayonet on the other, while the ones near the French border have Acme and Cup. Everywhere else adapters are needed if you aren't in your home country.

I get that, it was more a curiosity issue. It was something I considered to get easy filling from either side until I saw a post from Richard about having a towbar mounted filler, which seemed a much better solution (kept the pipework outside the car as well as avoiding having holes in the bodywork as well).

my new friend at flo gas told me today flo gas tanks , at the old countrywide key system , would be filled end of next month ...