And so it begins ....

[scottyf]

Thats becasue to most that probably makes more sense.
I love older engines N/A V6 / V8 / V10 just for the noise. Its amazing.

Flat fours, Inline 6's all great designs.

But not all are going down that line. 10 Years was generally the life expectancy of cars though. Just means if you are handy with a spanner you can get a lot of car for peanuts.

[Gilbertd]

Just means if you are handy with a spanner you can get a lot of car for peanuts.

But only as long as you can get the bits.....

I know what you mean about the noise though. What's the point of 300+ bhp from something like a BMW i8 when it doesn't have the soundtrack to match? I'd far rather have an Aston V8 Vantage or a Merc C63 AMG just to listen to it. The same goes for diesels, when did anyone ever rev a diesel engine with a big silly grin on their face? They just don't sound powerful.

[scottyf]

They aren't very heroic really are they?
That's the problem.

[Brian_H]

No-one feels that way about fridges and washing machines.

Japan's home market already scraps 5 year old cars.

Older vehicles are heavily penalised by London's LEZ.

China is now the largest world manufacturer and home market, with different preconceptions.

Existing manufacturers may find themselves reduced to hardware suppliers, as software-centric self drive cars appear under "Google" branding etc.

Assemble the pieces into a picture

Who spends the same amount on a washing machine or fridge as a car though? The LEZ only applies at present to larger diesel vehicles though that will almost certainly change given the current goings on there.

Unless your suggesting cars will come down significantly in price (which is certainly possible with what you've pointed towards, though how quickly and how much is another matter).

[Gilbertd]

Who spends the same amount on a washing machine or fridge as a car though?

Some people pay twice as much on a washing machine that I pay for a car http://ao.com/product/PROW0614II-Whirlp ... 22187.aspx and even more on a fridge http://ao.com/product/KI42FP60-Siemens- ... 25002.aspx. In fact, that fridge costs roughly the same as I paid for BOTH of my Range Rovers.

[scottyf]

But those some people would probably have bought a car inline with what money they have. Depending in priorities...

[kbs]

That's 8.5p including petrol I put in too. ...about £60 a week on petrol to £35.

Thats really impressive - something to think about when my current one gets binned.

They might be when they find noone wants to buy them though and they are saddled with a broken worthless car after 5 years is up when they are expecting to be able to sell it to put towards a new one..

You would hope so but I know of fairly 'logical' people who have sold a solid Japenese car only to buy a mickey mouse special from Korea thinking it will last them the rest of their life. It may be that the buyers of new cars simply don't appreciate that the seller has you by the knackers and the car is expected to be scrapped before the 7 year (or 20,000 mile) warranty expires.

....Japan's home market already scraps 5 year old cars.

Is that law now? In the '90s, we imported some 6.5t box vans from Japan as they were banning older commercials. Back then, you could keep your private vehicle past 5 years) but couldn't MoT it if it had scratches or damage anywhere.

... the likes of the Smart car engine which reaches the end of it's life after around 80,000 miles ....

I would suggest thats one thats had an easy round town life. One local remanufactuer suggests ~50K is the 'reliable' life.
People actually use these things on the motorway!
The biggest problem I've seen with that is the cooling. One truck driver was regularly thrashing it down the motorway, pulling off straight into the yard and switching off.
After a long motorway run, unless the driver keeps the engine running for long enough to loose the heat - silly temperatures occur - manifolds crack, chain guides fracture, Turbos etc...
I don't suppose anyone of an engineering background would think of using a Smart car on the motorway but I bet you cant find a sales man who would advise against it.

Some people pay twice as much on a washing machine that I pay for a car ....

Agree completely - bet thats on finance with the 80inch TV and £150 trainers for the whole family as well. They must get paid a fortune for appearing on ‘Jeremy Kyle’.

[scottyf]

Id save more if I stopped driving it past 5k. But then id have no fun.

honestly dont think id ever go back to petrol / diesel again. Lpg is great once the offset cost is out the way.
If you can stomach the smaller tank range generally.

Never knew the smart cars were so shoddy.

[Bailes1992]

8.5p / mile is seriously impressive from a 1.8 petrol. My 1.5TDCi being driven like miss daisy is costing me 8pence per mile.

I actually had one of those little 1.0 ecobursts as a hire car on Tuesday in Fiesta flavour. My 12 week old Ford Fuckup went back for the 10th time some more repairs.
What a fantastic little engine! Dare I say it... it sounded as good as my Fathers old ST220. In fact it sounded nigh on exactly the same! It sounded like a proper N/A V6. It reminded me very much of a Jaguar X-Type 2.1 V6 in sound and power delivery.
It didn't feel turbocharged and had a nice smooth pull right up the revs with plenty of mid range grunt too! I did 100miles in it, 70 miles on the motorway doing outside lane speeds (which it was very good at), 20miles on A roads giving it some and about 10miles around town. It returned 38mpg which I thought was reasonable, but not amazing. I would have probably got early 50's in my Focus on the same drive, I would have thought. But I know which one I'd have more fun in!
I did feel totally gutted when I handed it back, but it is nice to have the proper low down grunt of a diesel. I enjoy the fact I can make progress without thrashing it. I also enjoyed the noise the 1.0 Ecoboost made also.
I imagine in a Focus, and after I got over the fact they sound fantastic I could get early 40's to the gallon out of one. Which when you take into account the price difference between diesel and petrol I probably could have afforded it. Then once it was out of warranty have it LPG converted (is there kits out there yet for 3 cylinder direct injection petrol engines?).
I at low revs, under load you could tell it only had 3 cylinders. I'm sure entirely sure how it would have coped towing. I imagine if you avoided hill starts and kept the revs up while driving (2.5-4k) you'd be fine. In fact it's a shame Ford don't offer the 1.0T with a Powershift box in the Focus as that would be a combination far more suited to towing.

I'm not unhappy that I went for a 1.5TDCi. But I do kind of wish I wasn't so stubborn and had the Ecoboost.
I do think though that after a remap and an LPG fumigation system I should get my pence per mile down below the 8p it is averaging right now. I am hoping for about 160bhp and 350nm too!

I'm not too worried about the longevity of my little diesel engine. It's nigh on identical to the 1.6TDCi/HDi that's been around since 2002, it just has a different crank to shorten the stroke. I do think it will take a lot of looking after though. 6k/6month oil changes, making sure to let it 'run down' after a drive, switching off the Start/Stop feature, not letting it boost when cold etc etc.
However, I'm not so convinced on the longevity of the 1.0T. Although it felt totally naturally aspirated you could hear the turbo and it was boosting even at low revs with little throttle. They have been out for 5 years now though and I've not heard of one failure. My biggest concern is the wet timing belt. My Mondeo had a wet belt and after 107k it was ruined and cost over £600 to replace. The 1.0T wet belt is apparently 'fit for the life of the engine'. Which is what? 100k? Hmm.

[scottyf]

Indeed All very good in the quest to save fuel. Or as most of us want our cake and eat it as such.
But no longer having to worry about fuel bills taking up a portion of my take home does make a difference.

Freeing up £90 a month does make a difference and allows you to not worry so much.
It also means servicing and keeping the car going makes sense as even over a diesel equivelent of the same car would only save a appx £300 where as LPG saves me over £1000 a year.

[tom-madbiker]

currently i run 3 vehicles a 1965 volvo with a 3 litre straight 6 on lpg with a blos carb mixer i get 19mpg on gas (worringly when towing my caravan i got 20mpg so in not sure what that says about my driving) a rover 25 1600 injected system which gets 31 on gas and a diesel merc vito the vito is by far the most expensive to run and i cant go inside the m25 with it which is annoying and the new car is a 3.5 v6 trooper which i expect will do about 19 ish when i convert it have to say working on diesels is far nastier than petrols the oil is very filthy the lpg cars the oil is like new after 12000miles still looks clean