P38 Range Rover Landi Renzo Omegas issues.

Message
Author
Stewie
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:38 pm
Location: LONDON

#21 Post by Stewie »

Cheers mark, I think I have sorted the problem out but I'm now beginning to have my doubts as I forgot to mentioned earlier that having used the gasket seal treatment, i've only had time to test it a few times. Anyways on after a run I notice a light hissing noise from the expantion tank? Just started it up an hour ago and I know its rained earlier and it was getting dark, but I did notice white smoke again from the back but not smell at all from it? Is that just the change of temp or do you guys think the gasket is still f'ed up? Getting really disapointed fearing it may be the latter!

Stewie
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:38 pm
Location: LONDON

#22 Post by Stewie »

Further update guys! No smoke on start up, no signs of water pushing out in to the plastic cup I placed under the overflow pipe. driven on gas for about 300 miles however I have had to top-up the expantion tank for about 2 pints of water within this time?? Still hear the hissing after a run from the filler cap.

It has driven really well but then yesterday on the way home from work about half way into the journey as I was slowing down to a round-a-bout the car just stalled?! I had to restart it on petrol and drove a little bit down the road, switched to gas, it switched over fine, put my foot down and faced an initial strain to get a full flow of movement on gas but it forced through and then drove fine on gas all the way home.

Drove the car on gas today about an hour into the drive same thing happend, the car just stalled as I was approaching to a stand still?! I started it back on petrol to be safe, switched it on gas strait away and put my foot down, again faced a little jerk but persisted as if to force the gas through, which it did and then remained fine???

Just when I am concentrating on analysing the bloody gasket issue, this LPG stalling creeps up?! I am not sure whats going on but have booked the car in on Tuesday with my local LPG garage, I do have the software myself but this obviously looks more of a hands on check?? Is there any basic things I can do to check whats going on, mind you, any suggestions will need to be expressed in step-by-step idiots guide im afraid, sorry but I really have no ideal with mechanical thing!!

As I mentioned at the start, having driven about 300 miles I have noticed slight coolant loss and have topped up only twice last week, total of 2 pints, no where near as much or frequently compared to prior the HG treatment, but does this still indicate a remaining HG leak / issue or just the cooling system finding its level due to the new total refill after the treatment? Lastly what is the deal with the random stalling on gas? HELP!!

Stewie
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:38 pm
Location: LONDON

#23 Post by Stewie »

Hi Rossko,

Belive it or not but I have taken in most of the advice considering I have little to no clue under the bonet. However the HG looks to performing fine, no more water loss to date or pushing out of water in my experiment cup either, I guess after the coolant change the system may have just wanted to get rid of any excess water?

Anyway I did have the frozen VAP problem at the start while trying the HG fix stuff when I did not know how to bleed the air out properly, but since sorting that out it would all heat up fine, therefore I always check the VAP if anything feels irregular with the gas.

When the hiccups occured last week I did check the VAP and the two water pipes going into it and all were hot as expected. Furthermore the gas as died out on me again all of a sudden yesterday while driving and now just does not kick in at all? The car stalls everytime I swtich over. The VAP and pipes are all hot indicating sufficient temp, so I am confused? I dont know what else to try? I will pop in to my local LPG garage, as my laptop diagnosis page shows nothing! Cheers again Rossko

Stewie
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:38 pm
Location: LONDON

#24 Post by Stewie »

This bloody cars a jinx ever since I got it! I have just got back from my local LPG place and they said the injectors are burnt!? I need a new set of matrix injectors, can anyone tell me if it needs to be the exact replacement as I have a Landi Renzo Omegas system and they dont do any parts in the UK?! Thus look for any private Landi Renzo stockest please! Cheers

Stewie
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:38 pm
Location: LONDON

#25 Post by Stewie »

Hi Rossko, how far is it from North West London to your place and would fit a suitble set of injectors in? If so how much would it cost mate, also can any 8 cyl injectors do or only specific ones for Landi? I got of the phone from one garage who said that they can put the more reliable 'med' injector rails in place of matrix as matrix are unreliable in that if one goes then the whole block is useless? Is that right?! I figure if I am going to need a new set then I may as well go for a premium range thus any specific one with model number would be helpful as I can see on the net if I can get the parts cheap otherwise and let the local lot fit it? Cheers mate

Stewie
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:38 pm
Location: LONDON

#26 Post by Stewie »

Thanks Rossko, I appreciate the honesty mate. I am beginning to doubt the diagnosis myself if you’re that sure of uncommon injector failures/burn outs, but I guess the only way to know for sure is to have a second opinion, thus can you recommend any good LPG garages near me in London that may be able to confirm the diagnosis?

I do know that they spent about 45 minutes looking at all sorts of things, pulling small pipes here and there, even went to the boot and turned a few screws on the doughnut tank releasing a bit of gas, then fiddled with Zavoli Vap, turning a few screws, but no matter what they were trying the car would just loose power as soon as they kept switching over to LPG.

Then the only English speaking techy said that one rail was burnt? And that it would be no point changing the one. They could order the part but it would take a week and cost about £300. I'm wondering now if there is a way I could open it up and see any visible blockage and clean maybe? But your right Rossko, a second opinion must be sought before spending that kind of money. It seems a bit odd how it could running quite sweet and then has hiccups and dies all of a sudden? Cheers as always mate!

Stewie
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:38 pm
Location: LONDON

#27 Post by Stewie »

Rossko, once again you are the 'MAN'! You were right, the injectors were not the issue, however in trying to find out more about repairing or cleaning the injectors I stumbled upon an excellent company called Tinley Tech who was able to provide good advice and recommend a garage near me that may help.

Having already wasted over a hundred pounds on two garages, one telling me the injectors were burnt and the other telling me the reducer was gone but both had no parts in stock to replace (thankfully) repair cost averaged 400-1000, I was a bit apprehensive to say the least!!

However I went to the garage Tinley recommended 'Alternitive Fuel Co' in Barking who took an hour investigating and concluded both the injectors and reducer was fine and after calling a contact that was familiar with my systems ECU, established it was an unreliable Earth wire to the ECU!!

All it cost me was 2 hours labor to get me up and running on gas without any parts replacement!! Just drove to Southampton and back for work today without any issue touch wood. However I still did notice that a bit of coolant was pushed out into my makeshift cup and signs of coolant had escaped from the header tank??

Anyway a Big Thank You and Hats off to our own resident Rossko for doubting the original diagnosis, Tinley Tech for their reliable garage contacts, Alternative Fuel Co for doing the job, competently diagnosing and actually fixing the problem and lastly not to forget an excellent contact I discovered on the net called Alex of OZON LPG garage in Plymouth but was too far from me to travel to, as he still installs, repairs and supplies Landi Renzo systems in the UK south region, and also gave me great advice over the phone!!

A note of summary for owners of Landi Renzo systems, the Omegas model ECU is prone to poor Earth wiring and contrary to common perception that Landi Renzo have gone bust, they actually don’t directly work to the UK market but still exist! They still manufacture parts have I have since discovered have a registered importer for the UK ‘Greenconversions’. OZON LPG in Plymouth also supplies parts and provides general maintenance services and Alternative Fuel Co is in my opinion and experience the most reliable garage in the London area. Thanks again and if anyone can give me a bit of insight as to why a bit of coolant gets pushed out while I’m on gas, I can finally put this post to bed!!!
:wink:

Stewie
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:38 pm
Location: LONDON

Loosing miles on LPG

#28 Post by Stewie »

Hmmm....Right since sorting out the LPG problem I established that I also have a faulty Mass Air Filter sensor, having cleaned it I've managed to get the car stable enough to switch on to LPG. However I have noticed that I can only get 180 miles from about 80ltrs of LPG (Landi Renzo Omegas Sequential), I am sure that I use to get on average 220 miles before all the issues kicked off?! Therefore I have booked an appointment back at my LPG garage, but can anyone of you guys tell me what could be causing this? It has run out twice on 180 miles so the short milage is being consistant?! I use to expect that from my last Rangie but that was on a Tartarini TEC99 singlepoint system!

Stewie
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:38 pm
Location: LONDON

#29 Post by Stewie »

I have not noticed any significant slump on petrol, but as I am sure the MAF is playing up, could that really also affect the milage on LPG? I assumed it was only important for petrol, hence runs fibe/smooth on LPG but a bit slugish on petrol?

Stewie
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:38 pm
Location: LONDON

#30 Post by Stewie »

I recall one garage a while back managed to hook up and OBD hand held reader and mentioned the rear oxygen sensors were not working / gone but the front were ok, the reading he was getting 'Running to rich and Running to lean'? Anyway he cleared the codes and tested it again and I believe he got the same codes.

Therefore since I am going to replace my Mass Air Flow meter, I may as well follow up the o2 sensors. However this was the same garage that thought my reducer was gone and I needed a new one, but it turned out to something else?! Anyway can anyone tell me how hard it is to replace the rear o2 sensors and where the hell they are located.

Also can someone please tell me the exact model number for the o2 sensors I need, so I look for them on the web, Range Rover 4.6 year 2000!

Stewie
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:38 pm
Location: LONDON

#31 Post by Stewie »

Just had my LPG kit serviced at the garage. They told me that the warning sound was down to the a load that may be put when driving at high rev's or suden acceleration and as the feeder pipe is 6mm to VAP is seemed plausible as per badgers view. Thus told me not to worry and keep driving as usual.

However he also hooked up a diag machine to test my lambda sensors, it had a load of errors 'Emission relevant misfire multiple cylinders', 'catalyst damaging misfire multiple cylinders', all sound scary! There must have been a dozen of these errors relating to emission and guess all down to MAF problem I had. He cleared the codes, tested it again and they did not show up so it seems the lambda sensors are fine?!

The other errors I got were 'Left blend door motor circuit fault (feedback)' and 'Heater Core temp. sensor circuit fault (SC to 0v)' anyone have any ideas on these two codes? I think it relates to the book symbol display I got when I first took off the vap pipes going in to the two heater core pipes, since then the book symbol ! sometimes pops up when I use the heater??! All heating seems fine and distributes to all the directions fine too so what could it be?... Cheers

PEGASUS
Member
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:46 pm
Location: WEDNESBURY

#32 Post by PEGASUS »

Hi Stewie
Try cleaning your MAF first with some carb cleaner, that usually works but if you are thinking of replacing the MAF only use a genuine one. I havent found a non original one that works properly yet (and i have so far tried 6) and i know loads of other people that have tried them too without success, they give a flat spot as they dont react quick enough and cause the car to try to adjust incorrectly which messes the fuel trims up really quckly. So you can see why i say to try cleaning first, but if it was faulty you should have seen a fault code wen it was read.
As for the heater core sensor it`s quite common for these to go mine needs replacing too they are easy to do and the part costs arount £12.00.
As for the blend motors the left one controlls the heat on the passenger side, does yours go from hot to cold ok ?, If it does it may have got stuck at some time to cause the fault code, otherwise they can be purchased singly (there are 3 all wired together) and spliced into the loom. The left is the easiest but its still a big job. Boththe blend motor and the heater core sensor will cause the cheque book symbol.
Hope this helps.
Mark

Stewie
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:38 pm
Location: LONDON

#33 Post by Stewie »

Once again I think you may be on to something Rossko, Pegasus and chance of a quick guide on how to replace the heater core sensor? I replaced the MAF a few weeks back and got a direct replacement which was a BOSCH make. Therefore I hope thats giving the right readings. Lastly driving into work this morning I got warning beeping and switch over again at 140 miles, check the tanks reading and the needle just hit the start of the final red bar quater. Therefore all this talk of putting too much load on the 6mm feeder to the VAP sounds more and more unlikely. I genuinely think I am loosing gas or the system is drinking too much but having said that, I just got it serviced on Saturday and software showed all the right numbers to my LPG man, thus could it be a leak? I can remember leaning over and touching some of the wires that goes from the LPG ECU to manifold a few weeks back to hear a hissing all of a sudden, while the car was not running? I did not think much of it at the time but know I think about it, it was obviously gas escaping from one of the pipes? Therefore can I assume that while the car is running and moving the gas around, that in turn it could do it at certain pressures to push gas out? Another trip to garage me thinks...

Stewie
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:38 pm
Location: LONDON

#34 Post by Stewie »

Right then, having had the leaky water pump changed in October, it looked to have sorted the issue of the sudden beeping and switch back to petrol but it has now started up again! and a bit regular too. I now try to drive the car a bit longer first thing on petrol hopeing it will make it easier but it does not make a difference. In the last third of my journey to work this morning it done it switched over again. Its a pain having to know how unreliable my journey on gas will be.

In the past I have just pulled over and turned the car off for a few minutes, start up and drive it on petrol for about a minute and it would turn over to gas and drive without problem. Tired that trick this morning but the beeping returned after a minute of driving?!! The car is giving me about an average of 12mpg which is about right but the self switch over is bothering me now?! :cry:

Stewie
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:38 pm
Location: LONDON

#35 Post by Stewie »

I have an appointment with my local garage so I'll guess I have to wait and hope they know what it is. I did manage to get a last minute appointment with another garage at the weekend who checked both pressure and coolant level were fine and while on a run as we had the laptop to it while driving around for half an hour and the readings were fine according also. He concluded that everything looked and showed to be working fine and within parameters and thought it illogical to do what I said it was doing. Sod's Law that while I was there the problem did not happen.

Anyway I have managed to locate a second hand ECU, wirings and Reducer for the system and want to know how hard it would be for me to change over with mine to see if my system has an electrical gremlin? I have the software and connections. The replacement reducer is the original larger capacity version compared to my Zavoli Zeta which is working fine anyway but the rest would, should be like for like to whats on the rangie. Any help, advice would be good. I was told the secondhand system is working fine, although I would not know for sure unless hooking everything up right? Otherwise if its too risky, I can just leave it all in a box and take it with when I see my local LPG man.

Lastly any ideas of how long it takes to swap, program aonther identicle ECU and change of a reducer? Cheers guys

Stewie
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:38 pm
Location: LONDON

#36 Post by Stewie »

No the system is a Landi Renzo Omegas, and the spare parts are all Landi Renzo parts including the lantern shaped reducer. I believe the all the parts are made by A.E.B and as such should also be interchangeable with A.E.B parts which I would love to know where I could get my hands on too. Cheers

Stewie
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:38 pm
Location: LONDON

Faulty RPM signal?

#37 Post by Stewie »

Hi, as I said before the spare parts are all original Lanfi Renzo original parts for the system. My current system is mixed with a Zavoli Zeta reducer on it that’s all. So if I decide to put the replacement parts on it would actually make the whole set completly the same throughout.

Anyway I think I may be getting closer to the issue as when it happened the other day I was able to keep it running while connecting my laptop to it. Although no errors were being registered I did notice how the software display speedo was indicating the rangie idling at 3000RPM's when in fact it was sitting at a normall 7-800RPMs??

Therefore I am guessing there is a fault with the LPG system reading the cars true RPMs and thus it can't cope when driving normally as it probably things I am racing around at an average of 6000RPMs?? I checked this reading numerous times switching the car off and on again to see if it would give a correct reading but no good. I even checked it again this morning before going to work and it still thought the car was sat idle at 3000RPMs?!

I did make a few phone calls to a friend on the south coast who said it could either be the LPGs ECU which may have a faulty component to read the RPMs or the actual wire that is patched into the cars setup may be damaged. He further stated that my systems ECU wire for the RPM is the only brown wire and to follow it to see where it is getting the cars readings. He said that as my Rangie has a Siemans electrical setup, it is quite difficult to get a stable solid setup if the RPM is patched anywhere other than the cars speedo gage. He said that with that system, if the RPM wire is patched to the cars Coil Pack, Camshaft or the Cars ECU then thats when in his experience such issues tend to occur?!!

Any further comments on the above is much needed. Cheers

Stewie
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:38 pm
Location: LONDON

Landi Renzo Manual

#38 Post by Stewie »

Right then, for all you insomniac LPG installers, Rossko in particular! I have managed to find a very useful link relating to my systems software handbook / setup manual;

http://www.ekolukakey.com/download/land ... e_c_gb.pdf

It provides those who in the know, on how to set up my system etc. Furthermore I was surprised to find that on page 13 the first paragraph describes the symptoms I have been getting and relates it to a low pressure reading

“Automatic Return to Petrol”… “If this control is activated, two conditions are possible governing the return to petrol:
- The lower pressure read for a certain period (point 3 fig.5) can be set to a pre-determined value. In this case an automatic return to petrol takes place accompanied by an audible (fast intermittent buzzer) and visual signal (petrol and gas led lit up).

As the second possibility it states does not sound a buzzer or led lit up I did not bother adding it in as the above it’s the one I’ve quoted that’s happening to me.

So as I am a novice and most of the handbook does not make too much sense to me, can anyone have look through and let me know what parameters should be set for 4.6 V8 Range Rover? In particular the parameters concerning the ‘lower pressure reading’, as I am hoping that changing the values may sort it out? However in my previous post I did mention the strange readings of the RPMs so an electrical gremlin still tops the list of issues me thinks?!! First one to decipher the code and fix me problem get Special Stewie badge! ;) Cheers

Stewie
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:38 pm
Location: LONDON

#39 Post by Stewie »

Yes when the system worked fine it would show a true reading of the cars RPMs and other values I am sure of that. Therefore I am left wandering what could have happened in the mean time for it to show such readings, although the car does change back and forth it does not however auto caliborate anymore as it just cuts out when the software atempts switch from petrol to gas, but thats only in auto-calibration mode, as I can easily change back and forth with no cutting out from another page of the software controls? Furthermore I have noticed that the online manual refers to some parameters that just do not show on my software yet I am sure my software is the latest? For example being able toamend the gas level or overlap time etc? Thanks

Stewie
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:38 pm
Location: LONDON

#40 Post by Stewie »

I was able to get an error message for the first time since the issue started. it read 'Low Pressure' in the diagnostic page. Although I was still able to change it back on to gas via the PC link. However I can also clear the fault by turning the car off and back on again allowing me to drive on gas again untill it happens again, which is now almost on every journey. The last pressure reading was an average of 1.05 when idle but it would drop down between .60 - 1.06 when foot on pedle. Any idea of what the likelyhood is? Due to the error reading (which was the first time and has not registered again since it poped up) I can only assume the issues I am suffering is indeed low pressure and nothing esle, hence ECU should be fine? Cheers :cry:

Post Reply