Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

[junkcatcher]

I can never understand why copper pipe is specified in the Code of Practice, copper pipe is really not suited for automotive use as it age hardens and becomes brittle. I would never feel safe driving a car that used it for petrol or brake lines, I only used for the filling line on my conversion.

[Gilbertd]

it age hardens and becomes brittle.

This might explain it, Clueless is trying to re-use old pipe......

[Toolless]

FFS, here we go again.....

FFS?

If they will take cut lengths of pipe back.....

Not as discribed and distance sellers regulation

Even if you could, it wouldn't be any good. Just as the 8mm stuff you have bought is no good. You were told not to buy central heating microbore pipe from a plumbers merchant so you go out and buy central heating microbore pipe from a plumbers merchant. The correct pipe must be plastic sheathed copper, 6mm for your install. You were given links to where you could buy the correct stuff so rather than messing about with eBay and a plumbers merchants, why haven't you just ordered the proper stuff from Tinley Tech or WTV? You would have had everything you needed in one parcel the next day.

Coz I could not tell by Tinleys web page what kind of hose it was
No photo and its expencive
And the black rubber stuff off ebay was cheaper then that of Autogas

It isn't 1/8 BSP, it's metric. All the fittings are metric because the kit is made in Italy (as you have already been told, but you've chosen to ignore that too). Tinley Tech will supply you with the fittings as well as the pipe, and they'll know what you are talking about, unlike your plumbers merchant....

Well 1/8 BSP seams to thread in OK
But its all OK now coz I found some fitting from the plumb center on Sataday
I have all ready got the stupid copper pipe from tank to engine bay plumbed up
All I need to do now is the filler to the tank when I can get an 8mm T
It did kink at first and I wasted a bit of my stupid real; but once you start making big loops of it as opposed to trying to force it through gaps and holes on the car it dose not kink so much
I bet there has been many of man that have put a kink in that pipe only to be hidden for the test by the plastic coating
If I was to do it all again I would use 3000 psi hydraulic hose

It won't. Why not do what everyone else does? Take the manifold off, drill it, tap it and fit the nipples. Then put it back on and connect it to your injectors with the flexible low pressure LPG hose that Tinley Tech will by then have supplied you with?

Coz I did not have all the bits I needed and not being able to compleate the job could of left me with out a car
But I have the correct size drill bit now and the correct tap
I have now removed the inlet manifold
Just before I start drilling am I drilling in the right places

No, the ebay add you showed us doesn't say that; and you were told not to buy it. Your scrimping is costing you money here, wise up.

That was a diffanent item on ebay all together

I simply don't believe your claims that you break copper pipe. You have to try quite hard to kink this stuff, never mind flexing it to and fro to break it afterwards, even when its old and work hardened.

90 degree angle enough for you sir
Try threading it through you hole or you clips and watch it kink
Kinked once then bend it again and big kink bend it again and its broken in half

How about the dashboard switch, without which it simply won't work? And the plug for it that got cut off and lost, turned up yet? If you don't resolve this one you're wasting a lot of effort.

Found it
it was under the passengers seat
Have now wired it up to my dash board

That's highly unlikely. The chances of this car ever being driven as far as a supermarket car park, or anywhere else for that matter, are pretty remote......

I will be baking you a chocalet hat in the shape of a hat
So when Im done I will send it to you as a gift for all your hard work

i think he got it running and is just toying with us

And thats why I have spent hours taking the manifold off just to take a photo and post it hear

[rossko]

If I was to do it all again I would use 3000 psi hydraulic hose

Which would have been another dangerous false economy, liquid propane attacks ordinary hydraulic hose (it leaches out the plasticizers so that the hose crumbles to dust). Use the correct materials
Central heating pipe is not the correct material.
You are operating well outside your sphere of knowledge and not listening to advice. You are a danger to your fellow man.

Kinked once then bend it again and big kink bend it again and its broken in half

Yes, of course it breaks if you bend it to and fro, which is exactly what I described. What on earth are you doing to it?? Once its kinked its scrap anyway, no point keeping at it.

Sourced a replacement for the smashed vapour box yet (another safety issue) ?

Set the tank to the right angle yet ? (A useability issue)

Consulted your insurers ? (A legal issue, and a small comfort to anyone you may maim)

[john_d]

FFS, here we go again.....

FFS?

For Fcuk's Sake!

Just before I start drilling am I drilling in the right places

yes

I simply don't believe your claims that you break copper pipe. You have to try quite hard to kink this stuff, never mind flexing it to and fro to break it afterwards, even when its old and work hardened.

90 degree angle enough for you sir
Try threading it through you hole or you clips and watch it kink
Kinked once then bend it again and big kink bend it again and its broken in half

thats why you should have bought poly pipe.

i think he got it running and is just toying with us

And thats why I have spent hours taking the manifold off just to take a photo and post it hear

hours? 10 minute job, 20 if your having a cuppa!

here's mine that i removed at 01:29am this morning!



only kidding but its easy to get a pic if you look hard enough

[Toolless]

It won't. Why not do what everyone else does? Take the manifold off, drill it, tap it and fit the nipples. Then put it back on and connect it to your injectors with the flexible low pressure LPG hose that Tinley Tech will by then have supplied you with?

Great advice
Coz I followed the instructions
Taking the manifold off then drilling the holes as close as I can to the ends at 90 degree angles
Only to find

1. that 45 degree wont work coz the nipples are
a. To short
b. the hex is not at a 45 degree

2. That its to short ow yes toooo short
The manifold wont fit back onto the engine block coz the nipples are touching against the injection rail

Meaning it wont bolt back on with the gas nipples attached which means basically my manifold is fucked and the car wont go any where
Hence the stupid question before

And was wondering how you think my engine would run with 4 x 5mm holes in my inlet manifold for a few days until I get them threaded

But never mind coge it up is all you can do
Thread 4 x M6 bolts in the holes and bolt it back on but that still ant enough is it the bolt heads are resting against the injection rail

So I have had to take the manifold completelly off the car to where I have electric and that means cutting all the wires that are associated with that area just so I can cut the heads off of the bolts with the angle grinder
And probaly it wont be wired up right and the car will never run again

Are
If only I had not removed the manifold just drilled and cut it whilest it was on the car
Then taken it off to clean it
I would of been doing something ells this afternoon

[rossko]

Coz I followed the instructions
Taking the manifold off then drilling the holes as close as I can to the ends at 90 degree angles
Only to find
1. that 45 degree wont work coz the nipples are
a. To short
b. the hex is not at a 45 degree

I'm confused ; you followed the instructions for 90 degrees but are now having trouble because actually you put them at 45??
The Zavoli hints sheet I gave you clearly says "Each nozzle must be installed at a 90 degree angle with the intake manifold", sloping a bit towards the engine is okay. No-one mentions 45.

It's up to you to think about what you are doing and plan where things are going to end up, clear of other fixings etc. Before you go drilling any more holes have a think about how you are going to get hose onto the nozzles and lead it away to the injectors, too. Using something as simple as a pencil as a stick to see the lineup and then marking the manifold works quite well.
If the job is beyond you, it is beyond you. People have been trying to hint at this to you since early June.

No idea what you mean by 'too short' ; it doesn't matter if the brass nozzles don't protrude into the manifold interior.

So I have had to take the manifold completelly off the car to where I have electric and that means cutting all the wires that are associated with that area just so I can cut the heads off of the bolts with the angle grinder

I think I might have cut some M6 bolts to length on the bench, and hacksawed a slot in the end to make a grub screw, so they could be screwed in with loctite to seal.

Can't imagine why anyone would cut wires to remove a manifold. You seem to have removed it once already without doing anything so stupid.

And probaly it wont be wired up right and the car will never run again

Excellent news, I shall sleep better now.

p.s. looks like you need a new manifold gasket too ; good news is you can bodge that with a cornflake packet, a sharp knife, and some patience.

[Toolless]

I'm confused ; you followed the instructions for 90 degrees but are now having trouble because actually you put them at 45??
The Zavoli hints sheet I gave you clearly says "Each nozzle must be installed at a 90 degree angle with the intake manifold", sloping a bit towards the engine is okay. No-one mentions 45.

My opologess one of the manuals I have says do it at 45 degree angle which I have done

I think I might have cut some M6 bolts to length on the bench, and hacksawed a slot in the end to make a grub screw, so they could be screwed in with loctite to seal.

I dont have a hacksaw with me

Can't imagine why anyone would cut wires to remove a manifold. You seem to have removed it once already without doing anything so stupid..

No I did not remove it completely
Look at the photo again its still on top of the engine
Because some brain dead ass hole prior to my self owning the car decided to wrap the wiring loom inside the inlet manifold between injector 1 and injector 2
whether its some mupit at Ford or not I dont know!

Excellent news, I shall sleep better now.

Are you taking the piss
or do you rely like to see people like me do with out in some twisted sick manor

[john_d]

Can't imagine why anyone would cut wires to remove a manifold. You seem to have removed it once already without doing anything so stupid..

No I did not remove it completely
Look at the photo again its still on top of the engine
Because some brain dead ass hole prior to my self owning the car decided to wrap the wiring loom inside the inlet manifold between injector 1 and injector 2
whether its some mupit at Ford or not I dont know!

the mani should be able to be removed by undoing the plugs, if it was wraped its not been done by ford, to weave the loom inbetween the mani would have take ages, i cant beleive that anyone would do that rather then laying it along the bulkhead a it should be.

Excellent news, I shall sleep better now.

Are you taking the piss
or do you rely like to see people like me do with out in some twisted sick manor[/quote]

i dont think he's taking the piss, just that you sem to be skimping and cutting corners everywhere from getting an unkown to be working 2nd hand kit to the hose and beyond, maybe, just maybe its time to put this to bed?

ps, your cars not fcuked, remove the gas injectors and fill the holes with some cement putty from halfords.

[Toolless]

Re drilled it put it all together and just as I though the car is fuckers
It turns over fires straight to 2000 rpm then stalls
if I do it again this time with the throttle pedal down it dose not stall I can keep the engine running with the throttle full or part open but I cant keep a constant RPM like I normally can with the throttle part open
It just revs up and down and up and down

[tom-madbiker]

sounds like you have an induction leak probably on the screws that you put in or on the manifold gasket modern cars are a bit touchy like that take it off undo the screws and re seal then a new gasket (not silicone sealer as petrol eats it and probably lpg as well) and all should be well

[Toolless]

sounds like you have an induction leak probably on the screws that you put in or on the manifold gasket modern cars are a bit touchy like that take it off undo the screws and re seal then a new gasket (not silicone sealer as petrol eats it and probably lpg as well) and all should be well

Are you telling me I have an air leek??????????????????

You know at first I thought it was a piston not firing

[rossko]

Are you telling me I have an air leek??????????????????
You know at first I thought it was a piston not firing

Who knows ; you know what was done to it, we don't.
* It might be a cylinder misfire; a bit of swarf or a dropped washer or a chunk of torn gasket may have fallen into the engine. That's a bit unlikely though if its revving to 2000rpm without any help from you on the pedal.
* Photos show a completely ruined gasket, beyond saving ; time to renew that like the man says. Should be good at whipping the manifold off by now.
* You've drilled some holes, maybe you didn't understand from earlier messages that you need to block those off until you've connected them with hose to the gas injectors. (this one gets my bet)
* Wires have been cut, maybe they got connected again wrongly, or not at all.
* Don't overlook simple things, like an electrical plug that was removed and dropped into the darkness so it hasn't got put back in place. Maybe you left the throttle linkage off.

[john_d]

maybe you didn't understand from earlier messages that you need to block those off until you've connected them with hose to the gas injectors.

this is where my money is.

[Toolless]

Have taken it off and re bolted it on
Connected all the hoses from manifold to injector
Its still doing the same thing!

[john_d]

have you plugged the holes on the gas injectors?

[Toolless]

I have ran a pipe from the gas injectors the the inlet manifold

[john_d]

you mentioned you "redrilled", was this the same holes or else where on the mani?

if elsewhere did you fill the original holes?

if you redrilled the original are you sure they are tight and not leaking air?

[Toolless]

Yes they where re drilled and yes the old holes have been filled

[john_d]

have you reconnected the iscv?