LPG Discussion Forum

To clarify one of my earlier points/posts...

If you could pay £1 for LPG or £2 for petrol then compared to 50p for LPG or £1 for petrol you would be saving more money by running your car on LPG with the higher set of LPG and petrol prices. We're talking the difference in cost per mile on LPG versus cost per mile on petrol.

It would cost you less to run your car to run on LPG at 50p than if you paid £1 for it but when LPG is always between around 40% and 70% of the price of petrol and tends to be at around 50% of the price of petrol then the higher the set of fuel prices the more money you save by running on LPG instead of petrol.

These days we use exclamation marks(!) when we mention LPG prices of £1 per litre, they do seem high, but £1 per litre is less than 62% of some of the lowest prices of petrol (£1.60) and not so long ago we might have prefered to pay 50p instead of 60p for LPG when petrol was around £1 per litre but we wouldn't have used exclamation marks or baulked at 60p per litre. And not so long ago with those same prices we wouldn't have been saving nearly as much to drive X miles in our cars by running on LPG instead of running on petrol.

It would be nice if prices hadn't gone up but they have, we'd all run our cars for less at the lower set of prices, but because they've all gone up we now save more money than ever by running on LPG instead of petrol. It will still cost us more to drive X miles in our cars on LPG than it would have not so long ago, but the alternative would be running on petrol or diesel and notice twice as much increase in fuel costs. Even the cost of recharging an EV has gone up and is set to go up further.

LPG is still 72.9 at most Morrisons. Compare that price to petrol, compare the price of 60L of LPG to 60L of petrol. Compare at today's prices and compare at prices 6 months ago. You save more money now than ever by running on LPG.

5 years ago you might have expected to save effectively 50p per litre by running on LPG when you could buy LPG at maybe 50p per litre. Today you could expect to save 50p per litre if you paid £1 for a litre of LPG. But you can still buy LPG for 72.9p in which case you save effectively at least 80p per litre by running on LPG, save even more if you run a vehicle that needs super unleaded petrol.

If you save (say) £30 on a journey you've saved £30.... Regardless of whether the journey would still cost you £10 or £100. But even at the highest LPG prices we're not just talking a few percent savings, we're still talking big percent savings. Pay £1 per litre for LPG and still save maybe 33% of the cost of the journey by running on LPG instead of petrol - If you would have paid £100 for petrol you'd still save maybe £33 by running on LPG.

If petrol were 10p per litre and LPG were 5p per litre I wouldn't expect many enquiries or much custom for LPG conversions, but especially since overall fuel price increases I am inundated with enquiries. Recently there has been a massive rise in the number of enquiries from people thinking about 'converting' their diesel vehicles.

is that a thing simon ?

"'converting' their diesel vehicles."

robertXX wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:07 am is that a thing simon ?

"'converting' their diesel vehicles."

We can't make a diesel run on LPG alone but LPG can be used to supplement diesel fuelling with a diesel:LPG ratio of maybe 4:1 depending on the spec of the diesel engine and the engine load.

Nowhere near as popular as petrol engine LPG conversions... Some owners enquire thinking they can have their diesel converted to run on 100% LPG after the warm up period but lose interest when they learn the engine will still probably use 80% diesel.

But there can be other advantages of adding LPG to a diesel engine, the LPG helps the diesel itself burn more completely (especially in older design diesel engines that are less efficient than modern engines in the first place) so they can consume less litres of diesel+LPG than they'd consume using just diesel, it can make diesels more powerful and can clean up emissions.

But on the downside if there's too much LPG in the mix it can cause starfire pre-ignition and/or too hot exhaust gas temps. Modern LPG supplementation systems for diesels are mappable and feature safeguards such as EGT sensors that turn off the LPG if temp gets too hot.

gotcha , thank you

Emailed Flogas today, the current response suggests keysites should be filled by the end of next month! (presume this means the end of May?).

They didn't really answer the main query I had, which was when could we expect to see supplies to forecourts reappearing.

Seems there is finally some improvement, went to the local Shell this morning to collect a parcel, and found the tanks being filled much to my surprise for the first time since February. Hopefully that will continue to be the case as its currently 70.9 rather than 99.9 at BP/MFG

Is that the Hitchin Rd one Brian?

No, Shell Broughton just off J14 of the M1 in Milton Keynes. I've never used the Hitchin Rd one as its just not somewhere i go past. But part of the same group, and I see that the Witney (Ducklington) one was updated today as well. The Grovebury one in Leighton Buzzard is also usually the same price so suspect its part of the same lot, though their pump seems not so reliable as its frequently out of action.

I see. I think I've used that station a few times before.

There seems to be a shortage everywhere. Even up north.
https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/sco ... -shortage/

35 mile range on petrol, someone really didn't think that one through did they!

But this is just a tip of the iceberg that demand for LPG is more significant than the industry estimates. Shell and MFG pulling out blaming low demands, but they don't realise that they are the one that always set the prices too high driving customers away.

Copied and pasted from what I wrote on another forum today...

Apps that show you where LPG is available and how much stations charge are only as good as the info that is entered by the users... They're updated solely by LPG users like us, if we don't update the info on them the info quickly becomes out of date and useless.

Yesterday I filled a customer's car up that I'd just converted, filled it at BP in Castleford. That station was showing no LPG in stock on FillLpg at the time, and I know that it has had stock for at least a few weeks. During the last few weeks many people must have filled up with LPG there but none of them updated FillLpg.

Today I filled my own car up at a Morrisons in Doncaster. That station was showing no LPG in stock on FillLpg at the time. I'm not sure how long this Morrisons has been back in stock, it tends to get some in stock, then goes out of stock again very quickly due to the number of people filling there. I haven't been to this Morrisons for weeks because FillLpg was showing it out of stock and it's a pita phoning Morrisons customer support (when I can just fill elsewhere).

I found out about the 2 stations I mentioned above having LPG in stock by phoning them, I found the BP number online, waited in a phone que to speak to a Morrisons customer support person. if I'd taken FillLpg's info as being correct it would still seem to me that those 2 stations didn't have any LPG in stock.

If there's a moral in this then it is surely that if you visit an LPG station, update at least one LPG station app to help keep others up to date with availability and prices Even if the info on the app was correct, some sites such as LPG show users the last time someone updated the price on the app. Recently with stations getting stock and running out quickly if someone checks a station on an app and the info says 'price at this station last updated 2 weeks ago' they're still likely to wonder if the station has any in stock at that point. In normal times 2 week old info is a very good indicator of today's price and availability but recently with forecourts getting stock, then running out, then getting stock again, etc (due to other stations suffering the same) 2 week old info isn't a good pointer on today's availability.

I think some people (not on this forum) might have been thinking 'Ahh but if I update the app others will know the station has LPG in stock and then they'll run out sooner and I might not be able to fill up next time I want some'.. But if they're the only person buying LPG from that site it will close due to lack of demand.

I have yet to update other LPG refuelling site apps but I will, just that I've been using mostly FillLpg for many years (and since before other apps were available) and FillLpg is still my 'go to' app even if it is very clunky lol.

In the past I have been guilty myself of not updating apps often enough after visiting an LPG station but now I intend on developing the habit of updating apps. It is all too easy to think 'Im too busy so Ill leave it to someone else to update apps' but if we all thought the same we wouldn't have any apps to show us how much LPG costs and where..

Let's all help each other and ourselves by updating apps!

Totally agree, I always update filllpg and mylpg site. But like you say these days stations do run out quicker than before. Still, it's important and good barometer for availability. Sainsbury's for instance, the day they're out of stock usually get stocked back the following day.

Trouble is with fillpg is it can at times take half a dozen attempts to actually get an update to go through due to the site. And stations over £1 a litre can't be entered via the app either, which wasn't an issue when the app was in development.

autogas.app - https://autogas.app/ tends to be easier to use, and tends to be the one I point folk towards. I do use Mylpg.eu but don't find the pricing info to be as easy to use as the others. Some of the info on there is a bit error prone as well.

I'd also say, that a competent manager/owner/operator of any filling site, would be on top of updating the price on the sites to show they have LPG available. Unforunately it seems a the few that do update the independent sites, aren't above messing with their competition at the same time.

Brian_H wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:36 pm I'd also say, that a competent manager/owner/operator of any filling site, would be on top of updating the price on the sites to show they have LPG available. Unforunately it seems a the few that do update the independent sites, aren't above messing with their competition at the same time.

Agreed it should be a no-brainer for forecourt managers to update fuel price/availability apps.. and to regularly check that nobody else has entered false information between manager updates.

Thought has occurred to email relevant parties to ask/suggest they email managers of forecourts they supply to suggest the forecourt managers/staff update LPG apps. I'm thinking Mike C might be willing to email bosses of Calor/Flogas and an email from him might be better received by such people than an email from any of us. Or we could email Calor/Flogas ourselves. No reason why e.g. Morrisons bosses wouldn't want to tell all their forecourt managers/staff to do it. Get an email to such suppliers/bosses and they could probably just write a quick email and send to all the forecourts they supply/run.

Can we make a list of websites/apps to include in such email? When we have the full set of sites/apps in the list we should put the list in order or priority before sending an email. I've started a list below (no particular order)...

https://autogas.app/
https://www.filllpg.co.uk/
https://www.mylpg.eu/stations/united-kingdom/

Shouldn't be any reason why they wouldn't be happy and willing to do it but I wouldn't be surprised if some can't be arsed or have other ideas. Come to think of it I wouldn't be overly surprised if Mike/LiquidGas want only sites/apps that are pro Liquidgas to be on the list but it's worth a try?

Very good idea. Mike C should do some real work!

LPGC wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:35 pm

Brian_H wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:36 pm I'd also say, that a competent manager/owner/operator of any filling site, would be on top of updating the price on the sites to show they have LPG available. Unforunately it seems a the few that do update the independent sites, aren't above messing with their competition at the same time.

Agreed it should be a no-brainer for forecourt managers to update fuel price/availability apps.. and to regularly check that nobody else has entered false information between manager updates.

Thought has occurred to email relevant parties to ask/suggest they email managers of forecourts they supply to suggest the forecourt managers/staff update LPG apps. I'm thinking Mike C might be willing to email bosses of Calor/Flogas and an email from him might be better received by such people than an email from any of us. Or we could email Calor/Flogas ourselves. No reason why e.g. Morrisons bosses wouldn't want to tell all their forecourt managers/staff to do it. Get an email to such suppliers/bosses and they could probably just write a quick email and send to all the forecourts they supply/run.

Can we make a list of websites/apps to include in such email? When we have the full set of sites/apps in the list we should put the list in order or priority before sending an email. I've started a list below (no particular order)...

https://autogas.app/
https://www.filllpg.co.uk/
https://www.mylpg.eu/stations/united-kingdom/

Shouldn't be any reason why they wouldn't be happy and willing to do it but I wouldn't be surprised if some can't be arsed or have other ideas. Come to think of it I wouldn't be overly surprised if Mike/LiquidGas want only sites/apps that are pro Liquidgas to be on the list but it's worth a try?

I don't know of any other significent sites holding details of LPG outlets in the UK. I wouldn't have described any of them as being either pro or against Liquidgas, never seen a mention on there either way personally. Autogas.app in particular is just literally the map, filllpg has very little content besides the map, the only one that has a bit more info is mylpg and thats very little info there beyond installers, which the other two don't have listed seperately.

I can't see much chance of the supermarket outlets updating info, but indepentent filling stations should be easier to get to sort it out, as it has a more direct effect on them.

Incidentally, Shell Broughton has been out of petrol and diesel for the last couple of times I've been there, but still has Autogas at the moment.

A friend of mine is a professional musician who travels all over the country (and the world but that isn't relevant) and runs a 4.4 Discovery 3 as his everyday car and a supercharged Jag as his toy, both on LPG. So lack of supplies has been a real problem for him. However, he sent me a text yesterday afternoon to say he was in Exmouth and had seen a Flogas tanker filling the tanks at a filling station so it looks like supplies are starting to get out now. On Easter Sunday even!!

That's a jolly good news. Hope they keep doing, so things can get back to normal.