Bit of advice for a veteran LPG installer please.

[Lpg Monkey]

Read the above posts all he info you need to understand is there

Your cars engine will rev to 6500 ish but you wouldn't drive everywhere at that would you

[luke123]

Read the above posts all he info you need to understand is there

Your cars engine will rev to 6500 ish but you wouldn't drive everywhere at that would you

I understand that and the info above but i just don't understand why you would go against manufacturers of what pressure it will flow/handle??

[Lpg Monkey]

they are max ratings the red line experience should tell you if you run something flat out all the time it will fail sooner than if its just running part load. why can it be turned down beyond this point but not up past it ? with them rails drilled to 2.8mm and a pressure up at the higher limits the injectors will be running at their lower limit not leaving much adjustment for when he has to tweak the map or the obd takes over (if im not mistaken I think 3.2 ms is the lowest them injectors will go) which is why ideally you want around 5ms so there is room for adjustment up or down to allow for gunging up of / wear of components in the future

[Lpg Monkey]

I understand that and the info above but i just don't understand why you would go against manufacturers of what pressure it will flow/handle??[/quote]


pressure and flow are 2 different things
a reducer delivers pressure at a certain flow rate.

[Gilbertd]

Look, will you pair take your personal argument somewhere else and stop filling threads with your incessant points scoring?

[classicswede]

Well you are all wrong!

In the software set the pressure to 1..1 bar, adjust the vapouriser to between 1.2 and 1.3 on tickover on LPG if we are going to be exact. With the vapouriser set to that you will find when under normal load the gas pressure will then be in the area of 1.1 bar.

You want the normal load gas pressure to be set in the software correctly to give the ECU a good base line for the correction table. This also effects the switch back to petrol threshold.

With the working pressure setting increased your map will have leaned back a little so you can just highlight the full map and add 5-10% probably to correct for that but use your fuel trims to confirm. The map you have in the screen shots is more or less base map. With most injectors on the Jeep you need to lean off the high load area, bottom 5/6 lines and reduce by between 5 and 20% gradually. Use your fuel trims to confirm but bear in mind the very lowest lines will be at WOT so in open loop mode and for that you will have to rely on the lambda still showing rich.

With the numbers in the boxes keep the shading on to help show up any holes. The spread of the base map is roughly how it should look. Try and keep the number variation from one box to the next no more than 10 where possible. You do not need to adjust each and every box one at a time but can adjust chunks in one go adding or reducing by X and then at the very last stages be adjusting the odd boxes that need an individual tweak.

There are some know misfire type problems that have as simple fix as does the gearbox knock when changing into top gear.

[Tubbs]

[rossko]

I got a pot stirrer .. a reducer/regulator/vaporiser is reducing pressure from tank pressure to rail pressure. The higher the rail pressure, the less work it has to do.

[Forrests Speedshop]

So,after seeing the last 10 posts i know i have to set the pressure at the reg to between 1-1.4bar.

Me personally having built a few drag cars(from 612bhp 300zx's to 700bhp hemis) i tend to keep the fuel pressure high at the rail so the injectors have more pressure at them on every cycle now being gas i would have assumed the same.

But,you guys are more clued up that me so i was going on what you say but theres a few conflicting answers.

I shall drop the pressure a small amount at the reg and see how i go from there.I shall post my findings after a play shortly

[Forrests Speedshop]

Right.So ive dropped the reducer pressure a touch and set the config to 1.1bar.
Turned off adaptivity.

Done an auto cal and the figures have gone much higher than the base map(as expected)

What im trying to get my head round is at idle my trim is -3.5% yet the gas injection time is +1.5-2m/s.



But a big difference at 2k.






I also notice at a standstill (in neutral)if a blip the throttle to WOT the gas map from 1000-1250rpm the gas injector time goes to 18m/s for a split second :/

Confused.com at the minute.

[Forrests Speedshop]

Forgot the petrol one lol

[Forrests Speedshop]

I know im talking to myself at the minute while you guys knock off work but i think i have a reasonable map on my own till i sort a cable or something out.

Set Gas pressure to 1.3bar tried it on 1.1bar in config but no joy.So set it to 1.2 still problems.Set it to 1.3 and the map was happy.

Took it for a run and this ridiculous poxy "£$%$£^&£$ cable keeps dropping the signal out so im having to pull up,reconnect and mess about like that.Will be much easier when the missus gets home from work as i can just get her to cruise about at different speeds while i play with the map.I think it may be a little rich on the top end but ive not managed to get more than 1/2 a mile without the bloody connection dropping out.

I have 3 laptops and none have a serial port.The cable supplied just has a usb plug on the end,not ideal but id rather not get another laptop just to set this up so if anyone can suggest anything id appreciate that.

But so far so good,no hesitation when i bury my foot to the floor,smoother on gas that it is on petrol,idles better on gas too.
Ever the tinkerer and perfectionist if i could get this cable to not drop out so i can get longer than a minute run time id be happy!

[Gilbertd]

Using a serial cable with a USB to serial adapter often gives the same results as you are having with a USB cable. It seems that different chipsets in the adapter vary in how reliable a connection you get. A much more stable solution if you don't have a serial port is to use a PCMCIA to serial adapter card. Quite a bit more expensive than the cheap n cheerful USB adapters, but they do seem to work a lot more reliably.

[rossko]

You'll hate this. Looking at the gas idle injector time which seems long to me, the first thing I'd do is wind the idle pressure back up to the Zeta-S design pressure of 1.4 bar, and then autocal.
I think with the Type30s you don't want to get down among the 4mS times, but 5mS or less is good.

[Forrests Speedshop]

Using a serial cable with a USB to serial adapter often gives the same results as you are having with a USB cable. It seems that different chipsets in the adapter vary in how reliable a connection you get. A much more stable solution if you don't have a serial port is to use a PCMCIA to serial adapter card. Quite a bit more expensive than the cheap n cheerful USB adapters, but they do seem to work a lot more reliably.

Ok i will look into that thanks Mr Gilbert For now im hoping when i get a driver i will be able to keep connecting as were going down the road making a note in between drop outs and then making changes when were stationary so as not to brick the ecu.Damn annoying because when im stationary it doesnt lose its connection at all!

You'll hate this. Looking at the gas idle injector time which seems long to me, the first thing I'd do is wind the idle pressure back up to the Zeta-S design pressure of 1.4 bar, and then autocal.
I think with the Type30s you don't want to get down among the 4mS times, but 5mS or less is good.

God damn it!
Since the previous screenshots i moved the reducer pressure in the config file to 1.3bar up from 1.1bar(which it was in the above screenshots) This brought the petrol inj times on gas to 4.5m/s (on petrol it is also 4.5m/s give or take) after a few additions to the map.
I will be having a tinker tomorrow with the missus(oooer )so i will report back after a decent road test.It drives fine now but obviously theres room for improvement.Cheers Ross

[luke123]

Using a serial cable with a USB to serial adapter often gives the same results as you are having with a USB cable. It seems that different chipsets in the adapter vary in how reliable a connection you get. A much more stable solution if you don't have a serial port is to use a PCMCIA to serial adapter card. Quite a bit more expensive than the cheap n cheerful USB adapters, but they do seem to work a lot more reliably.

Ok i will look into that thanks Mr Gilbert For now im hoping when i get a driver i will be able to keep connecting as were going down the road making a note in between drop outs and then making changes when were stationary so as not to brick the ecu.Damn annoying because when im stationary it doesnt lose its connection at all!

You'll hate this. Looking at the gas idle injector time which seems long to me, the first thing I'd do is wind the idle pressure back up to the Zeta-S design pressure of 1.4 bar, and then autocal.
I think with the Type30s you don't want to get down among the 4mS times, but 5mS or less is good.

God damn it!
Since the previous screenshots i moved the reducer pressure in the config file to 1.3bar up from 1.1bar(which it was in the above screenshots) This brought the petrol inj times on gas to 4.5m/s (on petrol it is also 4.5m/s give or take) after a few additions to the map.
I will be having a tinker tomorrow with the missus(oooer )so i will report back after a decent road test.It drives fine now but obviously theres room for improvement.Cheers Ross

At-least the vehicle is running on Lpg now and no hesitations

[Tubbs]

You'll hate this. Looking at the gas idle injector time which seems long to me, the first thing I'd do is wind the idle pressure back up to the Zeta-S design pressure of 1.4 bar, and then autocal.
I think with the Type30s you don't want to get down among the 4mS times, but 5mS or less is good.

Thanks Ross. I often find reducers work best at the design pressure.
Sounds like you are getting there though mate. Just a bit of fine tuning. And turn the adaptivity back on. Jobs a good un.

[Forrests Speedshop]

Well I've done 60 miles in Jeff the Jeep and it's running spot on so far, I turned adaptivity back on btw . Today will be the test mind as she has spotted a caravan so going to be hauling that home if it's any good. (flock my life)

Is there an extra guage I can plumb into this for the tank level. I know the switch/led system is the norm but as you know they suck! Lol
As im a bit of an ocd control freak I'd like an analogue or digital type guage so i know exactly how much is in the tank. I'm guessing if I find a guage that works off a 0-90ohm input it shouldn't be too hard?
Has anyone done this before?

Overall I'm well chuffed and really appreciate the help you've all given me so thanks.

[Tubbs]

Just set the trip from full. Run it out and make a note of the range. Then every time you fill after that you will know.
If you get a chance have a look at what signal is actually coming from the gauge at the tank to the ecu via laptop (bottom left corner). And then see how well filtered the signal is already.

[Forrests Speedshop]

Hello again lads.Thought id rebump this thread rather than starting a new one.

So.The Jeep has been running sound as a pound up until a month or so ago and then i had an issue on petrol and LPG.
I changed out all sensors and leads,plugs etc.Anyway it turns out these have a common issue with the ECU/PCM so i sent for one from the states and all is good.The car runs sweet as a nut on petrol,no misfire under load like before.

However,ive had to set the lpg up again and im having issues.

While it is running fine when it is going,if i sit at idle and rev it hard it hesitates and pops once or twice,the same under load.
If i am setting off from a standstill and stomp on the pedal it also does the same.

Now ive looked at the map and done another auto cal and the readings are a lot higher than they were in previous posts(2pages back)Now at idle its sitting in the 189 range as opposed to 165 as before.

If i blip the throttle hard from idle(parked) the ball drops right down to 18m/s (which is where it hesitates and pops) this number is lower than the mid range(idle on the grid) ive tried going higher(10% on bottom) and lower but it still does the same.

Can anyone give me advice on how to set this up please?

Any help appreciated.