Replacing Tartarini Evo7 rails with Valtek Type 34.

[stevejs]

My BMW X5 4.4i Valvetronic has a Tartarini SGi system fitted with Tartarini Evo7 rails. This system has worked fine for the last 12,000 miles since I purchased the car with the system fitted.

The Tartarini rails now seem to be worn out (causing misfires when cold) so I have replaced them with Valtek type 34s as the Tartarinis are way too expensive. The Tartarini system is based on the AEB ECU hardware so should handle the 2.5 Ohm coils in the Valteks as the drivers are rated at 6 Amps

I have fitted these new rails and I now want to fine tune them to improve the performance/smoothness etc.

When setting up the system the Tartarini PC software (version 5.8.0) gives me the choice of

Matrix
Tartarini
Tartarini Evo7
Tartarini Evo8

I have selected the Matrix option and the Autocalibration has worked fine.

The system is not 100% yet so I want to fine tune and I have a few questions:

1) the system doesn't have a manifold pressure connection - is this because it is a Valvetronic engine.

2) The LPG system has no Lambda connection - is this also because of Valvetronic.

3) Under acceleration the LPG gas pressure drops from 1.3 bar down to almost 1 bar (see the log file from my first test drive https://app.box.com/s/0qaetvls9m7r44goanqu ) - is this normal or could it be a blocked gas filters or worn out reducer (It's a Tartarini RPG/05). I'll order new filters anyway!


Any help would be appreciated.

[classicswede]

I think you will find that the EVO8 injectors are valtek type 34's

The valteks would have been low on my list of injectors to choose but as you already have them on you had might aswell give them a go. Don't forget when you change the injector selection that map is reset.

[Gilbertd]

The LPG system doesn't need the lambda connection but connecting it means you can see everything on the LPG software display rather than having to read it from a separate OBD scanner.

[Tubbs]

I think dai is right they are evo8.
Type 34's are a very good choice on a valvetronic, they are very fast reacting and can trim very quickly in comparison to other injectors.
Personally I always connect up the manifold vacuum lines. Regardless of it being valvetronic.

[stevejs]

I think dai is right they are evo8.
Type 34's are a very good choice on a valvetronic, they are very fast reacting and can trim very quickly in comparison to other injectors.
Personally I always connect up the manifold vacuum lines. Regardless of it being valvetronic.

I think the original "Tartarini" injectors were rebranded Valtek Type 30 but the Tartarini Evo 7 and Evo 8 don't look anything like the Valtek Type 34.

I tried selecting Evo7 and Evo8 injectors in the Ecu and did not have much success with very rough running. Selecting Matrix Injectors enabled the ECU to autotune and the car then ran ok - it was quite lean across the whole rev range but still drivable. I have now fine tuned increasing the injector times in the map to stop the lean running and the car is now running very similar on LPG and Petrol. The Tartaini Evo7's were set to switch to petrol at 3500 rpm, but I haven't needed this with the new Valtek 34s and the engine pulls very strongly up to full revs without going lean. My first tank of LPG was gobbled up at about 18-20 Mpg with mixed driving on motorway and London traffic jams - which I am very pleased about as I would not expect much more mpg from petrol. Now, I would like to improve on this if possible with a bit more LPG tuning or maybe just leave it at that.

Steve

[stevejs]

I've now done 5000 miles with Valtek 34s fitted to the Tartarini system in my BMW 4.4i, and I am very please with them.

The engine is smooth and powerful - quieter on LPG than petrol and my fuel consumption has improved. I now get up to 350 miles on a 75L tank with mainly motorway driving and the occasional bouts of spirited acceleration - where the engine pulls fantastically up to the red line on LPG.

So my advise is: - if your Tartarini injectors are knackered, consider the Valtek 34s as a cheaper, quieter replacement.

Steve

[LPGC]

The valteks would have been low on my list of injectors to choose but as you already have them on you had might aswell give them a go. Don't forget when you change the injector selection that map is reset.

Type 34's are a very good choice on a valvetronic, they are very fast reacting and can trim very quickly in comparison to other injectors.
Personally I always connect up the manifold vacuum lines. Regardless of it being valvetronic.

I've now done 5000 miles with Valtek 34s fitted to the Tartarini system in my BMW 4.4i, and I am very please with them.

The engine is smooth and powerful - quieter on LPG than petrol and my fuel consumption has improved. I now get up to 350 miles on a 75L tank with mainly motorway driving and the occasional bouts of spirited acceleration - where the engine pulls fantastically up to the red line on LPG.

So my advise is: - if your Tartarini injectors are knackered, consider the Valtek 34s as a cheaper, quieter replacement.

Steve

It is maybe a pity your Tartarini system didn't have the much better Matrix injectors that some Tartarini systems are fitted with... Or maybe not because if this type of Matrix injector had broken the V34s would hardly be a comparison for them!

Wouldn't have fitted V34's either, V34's are a mid priced injector and although they are quieter than cheaper injectors they are no better performers and no more reliable than injectors that cost half as much. For similar money to V34's you could have had much better injectors, I find V34s to offer poor performance for the size and the price.

What year is the X5? Valvetronics have got more demanding over the years. We used to convert them very well even with injectors that are slow by today's standards and the suppliers advice not to connect to vacuum seemed to be correct. More recent Valvetronics are much more demanding in terms of fueling and on later models I do connect to vacuum. I've written quite a bit about how I set up Valvetronics on this forum...

Simon
www.Lpgc.co.uk

[Charlie Renard]

Deleted

[john_d]

Simon, that just proves what a load of bunkum you write. Type 34's oare of totally different design to most injectors on the market, are very fast acting and accurate.
It is really annoying the way you spout your unproven inaccurate views all the time, why do you think you are god's gift to gas conversion when it is clear you actually dont know that much?

Charlie do you work in lpg? either installer or supplier of parts?

[Charlie Renard]

Deleted

[john_d]

i only ask as you share the same IP as:

Dualtech
Dualtechuk
Tinleytech
Tinley tech

[classicswede]

Now that is interesting, also more interesting that the posts have been deleted.

[Charlie Renard]

I do a little part time work for TT and as a result of my brashness have been severely reprimanded and may no longer be doing much more.
I also used to work for two of the Italian manufacturers and just get cross when people 'slag off' good equipment with limited knowledge of how it works.
Charlie.

[classicswede]

I don't think Simons reasons were the best but I do not use them because they do not flow enough for most of the cars I convert and I do not like the very broad map spread that is needed with the 34's

[rossko]

All my Type34 experience is with Lima installs, nothing to report: as in they work as expected.

Sorry to hear about a telling off for grrrr moment, we all get those.

[LPGC]

I do a little part time work for TT and as a result of my brashness have been severely reprimanded and may no longer be doing much more.
I also used to work for two of the Italian manufacturers and just get cross when people 'slag off' good equipment with limited knowledge of how it works.
Charlie.

It is unfortunate that TT have been mentioned at all here but JohnD (forum moderator) wouldn't have been doing his job properly if he hadn't mentioned that Charlie Renard was posting from the same internet address as TT. I spoke to TT before your post (which I have quoted above) appeared, more to buy parts but I did bring this up and was told that you do some occasional work there. I fully accept that you were writing your personal views and comments have nothing to do with TT whatsoever.. I use internet connections at friends houses etc but that doesn't mean my friends would necessarily agree with everything I write. I have no problem with you using TTs internet connection. I hope you weren't too severely reprimanded. I hope people will understand that TT are not involved in this at all.

Before your two most recent posts today (one of which you have deleted, the other which I've quoted above) I posted a reply but seeing that you had deleted your post I deleted mine. However, now I have seen your second (above) post which still aims criticism at me I will paste both your and my original posts below. My original post is in reply to your original criticism of the points I made:

Charlie Renard wrote:
Simon, that just proves what a load of bunkum you write. Type 34's oare of totally different design to most injectors on the market, are very fast acting and accurate.
It is really annoying the way you spout your unproven inaccurate views all the time, why do you think you are god's gift to gas conversion when it is clear you actually dont know that much?

Ooerrrr! I don't write bunkem, I write as a very informed installer with much experience with all types of LPG equipment including different types/brands etc of injectors!

I did not say V34s are rubbish injectors, I give a balanced opinion and said they are quiet in operation. On the other hand I said that similar performing injectors are available that are only half the price of V34 injectors whilst at a similar price to V34 injectors other injectors are available that are much better performers. Yes V34s are a different design, the design seems to be well thought out, they seem well engineered... but the proof is in the pudding and I'm afraid I don't find them any better than some injectors at half the price in terms of real world performance.

I am not alone with my findings, there are other installers that are also very experienced with a wide range of injectors, often fit a wide range of injectors, and some of these installers find the same as me. Then there are installers whom generally fit the same model injectors on every vehicle they convert. Unquestionably these installers will have less up to date experience with other types of injectors compared to we installers who fit a wide range of injectors. Unquestionably these installers will not be in the same position to comment or draw comparisons, because they will not have compared injectors.

When an installer fits a wide range of components there is no need for then to be biased towards a particular component in order to help make a sale. A general grocer on a market might sell a wide range of fruit, the stall next door might only sell oranges. The orange seller might make a billboard listing all the points why oranges compare favorably to other fruits in order to help make a sale, the general grocer can laugh at the list and might think 'well actually I know apples contain as much vitamin C as oranges but I will sell anyone an orange if they wish, I think they're not bad too'. The orange seller's billboard might say 'oranges are more tasty than other fruits' but the clam is a bit rich if he has never tried any other fruits. A customer looking for the fruit with the most vitamin C might be better advised to buy 2 apples from the general grocer instead of one orange from the orange seller.

john_d wrote:
Charlie do you work in lpg? either installer or supplier of parts?

john_d wrote:
only ask as you share the same IP as:

Dualtech
Dualtechuk
Tinleytech
Tinley tech

I have spoken to TinleyTech on this and other more important matters on the phone today (buying parts!). TT told me that Charlie Renard sometimes works there. Charlie doesn't as far as I know speak for TT, I have no argument with TT, have often defended them on this forum when I have thought others have unfairly criticised them. In my opinion TT are an excellent supplier, know their stuff, are very reliable with excellent communication. I buy many parts from TT but not usually injectors, though I will probably buy more injectors from them in future because relatively recently they have started to sell a wider range of injectors.

Charlie has taken issue with mine and other installers comparisons with other injectors but does not seem to mention any results of his own comparisons with different injectors, maybe because he limits himself to a narrow range of injectors?

Some of us find comparative claims, made by installers that we know do not put themselves in a position to do comparative tests a bit rich, especially when those claims give the impression that they are made by people whom have done comparative tests and are therefore in a position to comment, especially when those claims seem to be geared towards obtaining a sales advantage, especially when we don't find those claims to be true.

Simon
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk