DVLA - you learn something new everyday

[john_d]

in short:

from october tax discs will no longer be issued

road tax will no longer be transferable when selling a vehicle, so when u sell it the new keeper will need to buy a new tax "disc"

im sure some will know this already but i only found out when i went to buy mine

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vehicle-tax-changes

[Gilbertd]

Knew about it a couple of months ago. Best bit from my point of view is that you'll be able to pay for you road tax annually, every 6 months or monthly by direct debit. At the moment if you buy 6 months tax they add 10% on but monthly they'll be halving that to 5%. It'll make life much easier if you've got something that you only use some of the time, you just tax it at the time you need it. If you choose not to use direct debit and pay online for a months worth, at the end of the month you either pay again or declare SORN. When selling a car, your direct debit will be cancelled when you send the V5 in to tell them of the change of keeper and the new owner then just starts his own direct debit.

The only problem I can see that hasn't been answered yet, is how is this going to work for anything pre 1973 that is currently taxed as Historic. At the moment you still have to apply for a tax disc so you have something to stick in your windscreen even though there is no charge for it. Under the new scheme the existence of a direct debit or the receipt for your online payment will be your proof that a vehicle is taxed. How do you set up a direct debit for £0.00? You aren't paying anything but you aren't declaring SORN either, so how will that work?

[Brian_H]

Knew about it a couple of months ago. Best bit from my point of view is that you'll be able to pay for you road tax annually, every 6 months or monthly by direct debit. At the moment if you buy 6 months tax they add 10% on but monthly they'll be halving that to 5%. It'll make life much easier if you've got something that you only use some of the time, you just tax it at the time you need it. If you choose not to use direct debit and pay online for a months worth, at the end of the month you either pay again or declare SORN. When selling a car, your direct debit will be cancelled when you send the V5 in to tell them of the change of keeper and the new owner then just starts his own direct debit.

The only problem I can see that hasn't been answered yet, is how is this going to work for anything pre 1973 that is currently taxed as Historic. At the moment you still have to apply for a tax disc so you have something to stick in your windscreen even though there is no charge for it. Under the new scheme the existence of a direct debit or the receipt for your online payment will be your proof that a vehicle is taxed. How do you set up a direct debit for £0.00? You aren't paying anything but you aren't declaring SORN either, so how will that work?

Having just sorned one of mine a couple of days ago as it needs a clutch and mot before I can use it again, it now seems you don't receive a letter though the post just an email with the reference number. It also doesn't seem you need to renew the sorn every 12 months by the wording on the page. I would guess they must have a plan and can only imagine that it will be a case of going on the website/phoning up/going to the post office every 12 months to do it, and ending up with some sort of acknowledgement. Would be nice if they had said though.

[Gilbertd]

Yes, SORN has been non-renewable for a few months now, rather than needing to be renewed every 12 months.

[LPGC]

I didn't know about this but the changes seem a positive move.

Doesn't seem long since it took an eagle-eyed copper to spot an out of date tax disk and people could get away with 'in the post' excuses.

It's about time the government started to call it 'car tax' instead of 'road fund licence'. If they spent all the car tax on the roads and came up with a workable system to ensure roads were fixed properly after being dug up we'd probably have the best, smoothest roads in the world

Simon
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk

[babycaravan]

knew there would be no tax dise, from Oct, but never knew about paying monthly and only having to tax your car/bike when using it.
That good new for me as only use my motorbike in the summer.

[Tubbs]

It's good but means I will have to be a bit more on the ball about putting motors on the insurance database.

[Gilbertd]

I've got all of mine on MID whether they are in use and taxed or SORNed. They are unlikely to be involved in an accident if they aren't going anywhere but they are still insured in case someone breaks in and tries to steal them or a tree gets blown down onto them. That little white convertible of mine is currently on MID and MoT'd but SORN. Under the new system I'd be far more inclined to tax it for a month if I decided I wanted to take it out and play with it but shelling out £130 for 6 months tax just to use it for the odd day means it doesn't currently get used.

[Clifford Pope]

When you sell a car presumably the licence will cease instantly, or perhaps only when DVLA become aware that it is sold?
Up to now road tax only ran in complete months. So does that mean the new purchaser will be able to buy tax to the day, or will he have to backdate the tax to the start of the month?
That would mean the car was taxed twice for the first part of the month - is that possible?
Or will the buyer in fact inherit tax for a few days up to the end of the month?

[Brian_H]

When you sell a car presumably the licence will cease instantly, or perhaps only when DVLA become aware that it is sold?
Up to now road tax only ran in complete months. So does that mean the new purchaser will be able to buy tax to the day, or will he have to backdate the tax to the start of the month?
That would mean the car was taxed twice for the first part of the month - is that possible?
Or will the buyer in fact inherit tax for a few days up to the end of the month?

To quote from the original link
"When selling a vehicle to a new vehicle keeper, the vehicle tax will no longer be transferable. Vehicle tax will end when a vehicle is sold and the new keeper will need to get the vehicle taxed immediately before the vehicle can be used."

So yes it would stop/cease to be valid as soon as a purchase has completed. Of course unless they have other plans it would take time to show up at dvla etc before being flagged as invalid, but in the event you were pulled over for whatever reason and details checked that would suggest it would not be valid in the eyes of the law as such.

Something tells me they won't have a problem with it being taxed twice in the scenario mentioned above, it will depend on how they decide to manage it i guess (will they refund or issue part months for example?).

What could become more of an issue is when dvla somehow get the details wrong, I have been pulled over when i had around 2 weeks left on a valid disc as they had flagged the vehicle as having no tax, To which i pointed to the tax disc and checked the date on it. Time will tell on that one if their processes have improved.

[gasguzzla]

I knew tax discs were being done away with. Antiquated system that should have died a death twenty years ago. I wasn't aware of the ability to tax a car for short periods though, the way I read it you could pay monthly but when buying tax for six or twelve months.

It's about time the government started to call it 'car tax' instead of 'road fund licence'.

That actually happened years ago, when the Road Fund License scheme (which required all revenue raised to be spent on road building or maintenance) was scrapped and replaced with the Vehicle Excise Duty (which doesn't!)

[Gilbertd]

Yes, you'll be able to pay by monthly direct debit or online monthly, six monthly or annually. So if you don't set up a direct debit you'll have a choice of taxing or SORNing a car.

Incidentally, in 2009 the Government collected just under £6 billion from VED, £28 billion from fuel duty and a further £4 billion from VAT on fuel. Yet in the same year they spent £9.9 billion on the roads.......

[himselfunknown]

I think this will only be positive if the database is up to scratch, and they refund/charge by the day.

Otherwise, you run the risk of your freshly taxed car being impounded when you leave it parked on the road, if it doesn't show up on the database.

Unless it's pay by the day, each time a car is bought/sold, the government gets paid twice, and the motorist looses out.

Given the governments history with databases, and their money grabbing ways, I can't see either of the above being resolved on our favour.

[xmas6]

Still can`t fully understand why we need this system, car ownership transfer is computerised and verifiable instantly as is MOT and insurance.why not `just` add road tax to fuel tax and higher road users and `high pollution` owners will pay as they use?
I`m sure there is some reason my simple brain cannot comprehend.
Cheers Neil

[john_d]

Still can`t fully understand why we need this system, car ownership transfer is computerised and verifiable instantly as is MOT and insurance.why not `just` add road tax to fuel tax and higher road users and `high pollution` owners will pay as they use?
I`m sure there is some reason my simple brain cannot comprehend.
Cheers Neil

they wont make enough money

[Gilbertd]

Still can`t fully understand why we need this system, car ownership transfer is computerised and verifiable instantly as is MOT and insurance.why not `just` add road tax to fuel tax and higher road users and `high pollution` owners will pay as they use?
I`m sure there is some reason my simple brain cannot comprehend.
Cheers Neil

Because our petrol and diesel prices are already higher than those in France where road tax is added to the cost of fuel. It would simply be a way of trying to justify another fuel price rise which too many people would be able to see through.

[lukie]

it's going to cause alot of issues I believe, people will only be selling car's at the beginning or the end of the month, if I was to buy a car let's say 14th of a month, the car will have no tax as of that day so I drive it home, can I then put it on a sorn until the beginning of the month ?

would I be able to tax a car just for 1 month as I buy a car to suit my needs sometimes for a short term basis

[john_d]

f I was to buy a car let's say 14th of a month, the car will have no tax as of that day so I drive it home, can I then put it on a sorn until the beginning of the month ?

you'd be driving illegally if you drove without tax

[lukie]

you'd be driving illegally if you drove without tax

Sorry I wasn't suggesting I would drive illegally (well only from the point of purchase to my home address) the car I would then park up and sorn till the beginning of the next month, I think it's going to be a mind field for everyone to start with

[Gilbertd]

Personally I think it's going to be quite simple. You buy a car but the seller will still be liable until DVLA receive the V5 for a change of keeper, in much the same way as they are still liable for any speeding or parking tickets now. That is going to give you at least a week leeway to get it taxed yourself. So what if you are going to pay from the beginning of the month. It's going to work out at around £20 a month for tax. If you've just shelled out a few thousand, or even a few hundred, to buy the car what's another tenner? It's the difference between picking up the car with a quarter tank of petrol or the red light on. Every LPG car I've sold has gone to the new owner with some petrol and a full tank of gas, the P38 I bought recently had about a thimble full of petrol in it and no gas at all when I picked it up so there's 50 odd quid extra to pay just to get it home.