Cayenne and Cayenne turbo?

[DavidL]

I see a number of these offered converted but how successful are they, especially the turbo ones?
the 4.5 v8 also have a lokasil coating issue (another chocolate porsche engine) so is that made an worse, or better perhaps by lpg?

[Tubbs]

I've done a good few. The cayenne turbo and turbo s. You have to get the mapping bang on, multipoint flashlube etc and they seem quite happy to go the distance.
Problem is they are an absolute pig to convert, everything is tricky keyhole surgery, if you loose the sub in the spare wheel well you can get a 55 litre full torroidal in. If you put a cylinder in the boot 90 litre.
But at least 3 wheels and inner wings skins have to come off. You can easily convert 2 normal cars in the time it takes to convert one cayenne properly. I've put right quite a few that have been absolutely shocking conversion wise. You can see the conversion started well. But days later the converter obviously lost the will to live and just dug in and got it done.
Personally I wouldn't do one for under £2000, it's not worth it.

[dave j]

Profess Gas converted my Cayenne Turbo S and did an outstanding job but had it for 2 weeks, i wasn't in any rush!! I had a 140ltr tank in the boot, it's absolutely no point having a small tank as these cars love fuel
It wasn't cheap at over £2100 but soon pays for itself and i had no issues in the 2000 miles i did in it. I then sold it to a customer in Manchester who i often speak to and he's said it's running spot on.
I've seen a couple of Turbos converted / for sale on ebay and the engine bays do look a right mess with lots of the plastics missing to accomodate the kit. There are still lots of under bonnet pics on my for sale ad on my website that i can direct you to if you want to see them.
Dave.

[LPGC]

I recently converted a V8 Cayenne, I installed two tanks, one in the spare well plus a medium sized cylinder tank in the luggage area... gives a combination of good range whilst keeping most of the luggage space, the boot floor flap can still be raised, the two tanks valves will obviously flow double what a single tank valve will flow.

i regard the V8's a far easier conversion than the straight 6 Cayenne's, turbo'd or not makes little difference if appropriate components are fitted. The V8 Porsche engines are actually a very easy engine to convert! The most novel part of converting these vehicles, along with the lower spec Touareg, is the reducer water connections, I connect low down at the nearside of the vehicle . The straight 6 Porsche engine in the Cayenne is a very much more complicated engine to convert properly, the best place to install spuds is on the underside of the manifold.

Had a few probs with the last one I converted, though not really my fault. I installed a KME Gold reducer on the last V8 none turbo I consider the components I fitted a good choice, in the past I have had problems with a bad batch of KME Golds but the problem with this reducer went away for a couple of years. It turned out KME must have made another bad batch of Gold reducers, as te reducer went down on this Porsche. The customer was from Nottingham (a nearby customer by my standards as many of my customers drive hundreds of miles for me to convert high performance vehicles like the E55AMG I just did for a guy from Soctland), I am just North of Doncaster, but I drove to Nottingham to replace the KME reducer, all part of good customer service in my opinion.

Out of interest, can I ask for comments from installers on what components they fitted when converting these vehicles?
Someone paid Profess £2100 to convert a Cayenne? With one cylinder tank? I wouldn't pay Profess £2100 for a house!

I would convert any Cayenne, Turbo or normally aspirated, V8 or straight 6, for £1800 with one tank or £2100 with two tanks.

Nobody would better my results! I have a bit of a niche for converting high performance vehicles and always get the results.

Simon
www.Lpgc.co.uk

[dave j]

'No one would better my results'.......what a superb personal recommendation I'd really like to make a side by side view and performance check to see this! My Turbo was an S that has been re-mapped and fettled to run a proven 550BHP and it ran absolutely perfectly on LPG. Do you perhaps have a few engine pictures of your after conversion work we could all admire?
If it's a perfect as you claim well i may even give you a couple of my next Turbos to convert especially if it's a better price than i paid
I've had at least 20 large 4x4's converted by Profess and i find them great to deal with, obviously i've also had some issues but all in all the work has been fine. I will often call in unannounced to check what they are doing if i'm honest but i'm only 3 miles away so i appeciate not all customers could do this.
Dave.

[Tubbs]

Dave, with the 140 litre tank could you still get the spare out with the sub still in place ?
I found a 90 litre tank fitted nicely. With a frame fabricated up so you could still use the load cover and get the spare out. And keep the sub obviously.
You shouldn't have to loose any covers to convert a cayenne. It's all fits nicely under the covers.

[indyjukebox]

I wouldn't touch Profess with a barge pole. But then that is purely my opinion, formed by looking at their own published work on their website. Looks a right mess. Some of the filler positions are diabolical. And no one converts any car of mine in a day. But then I do value quality and workmanship over convenience and cheapness.

Others may and certainly will choose otherwise. That is what keeps Profess and other done in a day merchants in business.

[LPGC]

Profess claim they 'exclusively fit the Stag system' and convert all vehicles in a day.

So does your Cayenne Turbo have a Stag system? Wouldn't be my choice of ECU for this vehicle but good results could be had if the reducers (definitely would need to be plural) and injectors were all up to the job. But if Profess converted it I suspect the vehicle cuts back to petrol under medium high loads to be honest... 2 Weeks for a conversion from a firm that claims to convert any vehicle in a day is a bit excessive too really...

I stand by my previous post that nobody would better my results, I convert far more than my fair share of performance vehicles and customers come from many miles away with such vehicles. My last customer, for instance, came from Scotland to me in Yorkshire for his E55AMG converting. Around 70% of my conversions have been on such performance vehicles for a few years now. I would certainly put myself up against anybody who fits the same system on every vehicle because such people cannot have the experience of selecting components to suit high performance vehicles when their standard set of bits won't cut it... and Profess always fit Stag, it says so on their website..

Simon
www.Lpgc.co.uk

[dave j]

Dave, with the 140 litre tank could you still get the spare out with the sub still in place ?
I found a 90 litre tank fitted nicely. With a frame fabricated up so you could still use the load cover and get the spare out. And keep the sub obviously.
You shouldn't have to loose any covers to convert a cayenne. It's all fits nicely under the covers.

Hi Tubbs, no is the answer I could still use the load cover (with a bit of jiggling about) and kept the sub but as i always add 22" wheels to my car the spare is quite useless due to the rolling circumference difference in size so i just keep a compressor and can of tyre weld handy!! I'm also not a fan of an inflateable ballon type tyre that's several years old if i'm honest so this is not a worry to me.
All the covers etc were kept in place and i have to be honest it really was a perfect job and one that i was extremely pleased with.
I asked for the largest tank possible as i travel long journeys often towing a trailer with a car on the back so the high capacity is quite important to me.
dave.

[dave j]

I wouldn't touch Profess with a barge pole. But then that is purely my opinion, formed by looking at their own published work on their website. Looks a right mess. Some of the filler positions are diabolical. And no one converts any car of mine in a day. But then I do value quality and workmanship over convenience and cheapness.

Others may and certainly will choose otherwise. That is what keeps Profess and other done in a day merchants in business.

That's your personal opinion and that's fine, having had many cars converted i can actually speak from experience and not just summise what others would have me believe. Profess don't actually convert in a day anymore or so i'm led to believe

[dave j]

Profess claim they 'exclusively fit the Stag system' and convert all vehicles in a day.

So does your Cayenne Turbo have a Stag system? Wouldn't be my choice of ECU for this vehicle but good results could be had if the reducers (definitely would need to be plural) and injectors were all up to the job. But if Profess converted it I suspect the vehicle cuts back to petrol under medium high loads to be honest... 2 Weeks for a conversion from a firm that claims to convert any vehicle in a day is a bit excessive too really...

I stand by my previous post that nobody would better my results, I convert far more than my fair share of performance vehicles and customers come from many miles away with such vehicles. My last customer, for instance, came from Scotland to me in Yorkshire for his E55AMG converting. Around 70% of my conversions have been on such performance vehicles for a few years now. I would certainly put myself up against anybody who fits the same system on every vehicle because such people cannot have the experience of selecting components to suit high performance vehicles when their standard set of bits won't cut it... and Profess always fit Stag, it says so on their website..

Simon
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk

Yes it has a Stag system and it definately doesn't cut back at medium power my friend but it does so when absolutely floored but she has been mapped quite aggressively!! It's new owner is extremely pleased reporting no problems or issues so i'd say it was a job well done wouldn't you? I was quite personally happy waiting a couple of weeks for it to be done as well as it was, i have plenty of other cars i enjoy using
I often wonder how many potential customers are discouraged from getting their cars converted when this business seems to damn every other conversion company bar their own? I found this many years ago when looking to get my first car converted, after visiting several conversion companies i began to think 'is there anyone out there who is competant'?
Andrew @ Profess seems to be doing rather well for himself and is always busy.................hopefully others are as lucky

[Gilbertd]

but it does so when absolutely floored ......... i'd say it was a job well done wouldn't you?

Nope, its a bodge. When a car is converted to run on an alternative fuel, it should run on an alternative fuel, one or the other, not a mix of both at the same time. The system fitted isn't up to the job so I'd go so far as saying it has been very badly converted.

I should add that I'm not an installer, but an LPG user and that's what I want to use. I begrudge the mile or so that has to be done on petrol while waiting for the engine to warm up. I've put more petrol in another Range Rover I bought recently with a multipoint system in 3 months than I normally put in my single point converted one (which runs on LPG from stone cold) in the last 2 years. Why on earth would I be happy with a system that not only uses petrol in the warm up phase but uses it whenever I want to use the performance?

[dave j]

but it does so when absolutely floored ......... i'd say it was a job well done wouldn't you?

Nope, its a bodge. When a car is converted to run on an alternative fuel, it should run on an alternative fuel, one or the other, not a mix of both at the same time. The system fitted isn't up to the job so I'd go so far as saying it has been very badly converted.

I should add that I'm not an installer, but an LPG user and that's what I want to use. I begrudge the mile or so that has to be done on petrol while waiting for the engine to warm up. I've put more petrol in another Range Rover I bought recently with a multipoint system in 3 months than I normally put in my single point converted one (which runs on LPG from stone cold) in the last 2 years. Why on earth would I be happy with a system that not only uses petrol in the warm up phase but uses it whenever I want to use the performance?

Not an LPG installer......really?? I'm not suprised with such a brain stormingly informative reply I'm not talking flooring an old 4x4 Range Rover / NA engined car.
When it is absolutely floored we are talking about running at 70/80mph and kicked down from 6th to 3rd / 4th gear with the turbos producing around 1.5 bar of boost, that takes the consumption back from 8mpg to about 4 or 5 at best so it may be asking a little too much of the system but if someone (who has actual experience ) such as Tubbs / Simon can correct me then i'm all ears.
I'll be needing another converted soon so if you can 100% guarantee i can kick down in a modified Turbo / Turbo S and remain on gas at whatever load / speed then i'll try one of you or even both of you out, obviously with separate cars.
A 90 ltr tank would probably suit most of my customers Tubbs or i also like the sound of a twin tank such as Simons but many people would prefer not to lose the Bose sub from the well.
You are both welcome to PM me with some system ideas and prices, i drive all over the UK so the travelling doesn't bother me
Dave.

[john_d]

When it is absolutely floored we are talking about running at 70/80mph and kicked down from 6th to 3rd / 4th gear with the turbos producing around 1.5 bar of boost, that takes the consumption back from 8mpg to about 4 or 5 at best so it may be asking a little too much of the system but if someone (who has actual experience ) such as Tubbs / Simon can correct me then i'm all ears.

i'll save them replying, if properly setup and the kit is capable then it should not revert back to petrol

[dave j]

You may be right John, i know my Cayenne customer had an LPG converted Cayenne before mine and he said his would switch back upon full beans but i'm not sure who converted his? I know my previous X5's, Range Rovers and such like would all remain on gas whatever i threw at them.
I'm sure Tubbs and Simon will be along soon with professional views on the subject!

[andy evans autogas]

but it does so when absolutely floored ......... i'd say it was a job well done wouldn't you?

Nope, its a bodge. When a car is converted to run on an alternative fuel, it should run on an alternative fuel, one or the other, not a mix of both at the same time. The system fitted isn't up to the job so I'd go so far as saying it has been very badly converted.

I should add that I'm not an installer, but an LPG user and that's what I want to use. I begrudge the mile or so that has to be done on petrol while waiting for the engine to warm up. I've put more petrol in another Range Rover I bought recently with a multipoint system in 3 months than I normally put in my single point converted one (which runs on LPG from stone cold) in the last 2 years. Why on earth would I be happy with a system that not only uses petrol in the warm up phase but uses it whenever I want to use the performance?

I agree with the switching back / petrol addition facility is down to the system not being up to the job or incorrectly installed and tuned ... The only systems that I have used that were not up to the job where AEB based systems and haven't used them for at least 8yrs now. I don't know if installers are still having to use the petrol addition facility but I personally dont think its the right way to do it ....
Richard if you need the info to have your p38 switching over quicker so you use less of the dear stuff give me a ring.

[Gilbertd]

Not an LPG installer......really?? I'm not suprised with such a brain stormingly informative reply

I don't have to be an installer to know that if I want a car to run on LPG, I want it to run on LPG all the time. If that requires a high spec system then that is what it should be given. The Cayenne turbo may be fairly potent but cars producing more power have been converted with systems that don't switch back at full throttle. The petrol system doesn't run out of puff at full bore and the gas system should be a replacement, not an addition only used some of the time. As you say, none of your other cars have switched back, so why should any?

[indyjukebox]

I wouldn't touch Profess with a barge pole. But then that is purely my opinion, formed by looking at their own published work on their website. Looks a right mess. Some of the filler positions are diabolical. And no one converts any car of mine in a day. But then I do value quality and workmanship over convenience and cheapness.

Others may and certainly will choose otherwise. That is what keeps Profess and other done in a day merchants in business.

That's your personal opinion and that's fine, having had many cars converted i can actually speak from experience and not just summise what others would have me believe. Profess don't actually convert in a day anymore or so i'm led to believe

It is my personal opinion, you are quite right. But when Profess publish so called pictures on their website of their best work and they look poor, then what other possible opinion can I have? What would be your opinion of a Porsche racing/tuning website featuring reliant robins' on their web pages?

However you have now worsened my opinion of Profess by freely admitting that your car switches over to petrol under full load. Having been along for many a ride in a RR super sport and a CayenneTurbo (cannot remember if it was an S per se), neither of them switched over to petrol under full load (with a full complement of passengers, suitcases and a dog) for any of the spirited occasions on various trips up north and across Europe.

When you freely admit to clear faults in the install process, without me even asking, it is rather more formative in my negative opinions re: Profess. It is quite clear now isn't it? Despite whatever time they had your car in for, either the components are under specified or the tuning is poor, hence the poor performance you describe!

Also, it is quite clear that Gilbert has some sort of robust engineering background (an opinion formed from reading his very informative posts). So I do tend to listen to what he states.

[dave j]

I do appreciate all comments and i am (albeit reluctantly) starting to agree in some areas. On one hand i may have driven the car absolutely flat out very, very occasionally so it'd never really bothered me. I like a fast / flash car but as i've gotten older i appreciate it's not just me on the road so i tend to drive within the speed limits. On the other hand i do agree that perhaps it should remain on gas but then when i speak to the guys who re-map my Subarus, Evos etc they seem to think that at full power it's safer on petrol especially with such an expensive engine.
What i'd like to see is maybe one of the trusted installers on here to PM me with a spec and price for my next Turbo or Range Rover Supercharged conversion that will be modified / re-mapped. I'm quite happy paying for a system that they'd recommend but on the basis that is will remain on LPG when driven 100%.
A successful job will result in between 6 to 12 conversions a year from me so i'd say it's worth the effort of replying guys
Dave.

[Tinleytech]

Just for balance and in response to Andy's post - AEB systems are more than capable of running high output engines without using any petrol (unless you want to of course then you have the option) - as we all know, it is generally the output of the hardware rather than the controller that is the limiting factor on big engines - i.e the tank valve, pipes, reducer or injectors - most commonly injectors.