just fitted my lpg kit myself...cant understand high cost

[gasbo]

fairly easy to do so why do they charge so much...its a rip off folks!

[Tubbs]

Dammit ! You got us all bang to rights guv.....
Better give up, and go and get a proper job

[john_d]

someones gonna get a warning for trolling if this goes on.

[Tubbs]

Ooh go on John ... Unless its me obviously

[Tubbs]

No but you have to say. He has got a point. Why do we charge so much. It's only a few hours work afterall. Chuck it in. Have a brew. Empty the customers wallet and laugh at them down the pub.
Love to see the state of mr gasbo's LPG conversion. And some idea of his hours to complete. Or maybe he got lucky and had a really easy car.
Like an old passat or something !

[Gilbertd]

Like an old passat or something !

I doubt it was anything that modern......

He's probably just chucked an open loop single point into some knackered old pile of scrap and hasn't even considered CoP11 or any niceties like that.

[classicswede]

dead easy, red bottle in the back wedged with a block of wood and a rubber pipe from that to the carb. All done for about £20 and less than a hour of his time.

[Talkingcars]

fairly easy to do so why do they charge so much...its a rip off folks!

Do tell - what system have you fitted?
How much did it cost?
What car have you fitted it to?
How many hours did it take?
What is your employment background?
What equipment do you have?

[Gilbertd]

He's a troll, we won't get a reply.

[phils]

I dont understand 'Troll', dose this guy just fly about forms posting messages just to get an argument/wind up on people. Do people like that ACTUALLY exist? surely life's to short to wasting it like that?

[richard_ha]

I fitted my kit myself to my first car (a Honda Prelude 2.2).

Took me a couple of days, just to mount the tank, another day to get the inlet manifold off to drill and tap it. A whole day (with a pit) to run the fuel feed and wires to the tank. A couple of days to fit all the wiring (then another day to correct it!).

Second car... I bought with LPG on, easily worth it!

To do a good install at home you need at least a whole week and acess to loats of tools. I think that doing it yourself does have advantages, the frame cradel I constructed allowed me to get the spare wheel in and out still, but involved having to move the 4WS ECU, and wouldn't have been something cost effetive to get a garage to do.

[Brian_H]

I dont understand 'Troll', dose this guy just fly about forms posting messages just to get an argument/wind up on people. Do people like that ACTUALLY exist? surely life's to short to wasting it like that?

Don't know if he does it elsewhere but having seen his other posts he certainly does it here. quite what his reasons are only he could tell you.

[mat_fenwick]

fairly easy to do so why do they charge so much...its a rip off folks!

Here's an idea - as installers are obviously charging too much why don't you set up in business and undercut them slightly? You'll get all their work but still make stacks of money if it really is such a profitable business to be in...

[john_d]

I dont understand 'Troll', dose this guy just fly about forms posting messages just to get an argument/wind up on people. Do people like that ACTUALLY exist

yes

surely life's to short to wasting it like that?

he doesn't have a life, also bet he doesn't have a wife and was an only child.

[Gilbertd]

he doesn't have a life, also bet he doesn't have a wife and was an only child.

But he does run a highly collectable classic car, a rust bucket of a Maestro van (which he tried to flog on eBay for £300 with no MoT, oddly enough, it didn't get any bids.......)

edited to say that I got the price wrong, it was £399, see http://lpgforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=12280

[tomas]

I think to start offers on lpg conversions if convert 2 range rovers.....3 car nissan micra will be for free..

[LPGC]

As various people have already said, the original poster might (a) be a troll OR (b) might have converted a particularly easy car and/or (c) might have thrown the install onto the vehicle.Either (a) or a combination of (b) and (c) will be true.

Most of us could speed up our installs by cutting corners, by not putting much thought or time into how we mount components, by doing a crappy job of calibration, in short by doing shoddy work. The results wouldn't work as well or last as long but time is money and we could charge less if we didn't put as much effort in.

I'm not suggesting customers always get what they pay for - At one extreme there are installers who charge ridiculously high prices, I'm not backing them up here and I don't think their work or the systems they install are any better than some of the better installers who charge a middle price and do a good job - actually I'd lean towards the reverse being true because installers that charge ridiculous prices seem to think it's still 2003 and they can charge the same prices (that might have been half paid for by the government) as they did in 2003. Such installers have often stuck with the same systems they were fitting back in 2003 when maybe that system really was the best system on the market - but they have stuck with those systems instead of keeping up with advances in technology and other systems. By not learning new systems and component/system performance specs they can't offer their customers any better more cost effective options but they attempt to justify their prices by saying they fit the best systems or saying they do the best job of installation. I'm sure some of them believe their own hype but most installers who charge very high prices claims are laughable. When I see a conversion that cost a high price I know it is overpriced irrespective of what parts are fitted, I doubt the installer will have pointed out to their customer or even known themselves other options they could have offered their customer. As an example of this, I don't know how many Jeeps I have seen bulky Prins mixer reducers rattling against the engine on, but the installer only fitted 'the best and most expensive' system on the market and 'did the best workmanship' but was happy to send the vehicle out with the reducer rattling against the engine because the reducer was too large to do anything else with it.

At the other extreme are installers who charge less because they don't put the effort in - Nobody could convince me that the done in a day jobs are done to the same standards as my work and I find it annoying that such installers try to make the case that their installs are done to the same standards as mine. I can always tell how much effort the installer has gone to and evidently not very much effort in the case of most of the very cheap installs. Installers like myself that have pride in their work and want everything to work properly, to look tidy, well installed and correct technically probably make less per hour than the done in a day guys - the extra we charge over the done in a day guys won't make up for the extra time we spend working on the vehicle to do the job properly. When I take on a conversion I'll advise the customer of the number of days it will take to convert the car. I'm sure the customer thinks I work 9 till 5 but actually I put in a lot more than 8 hours a day and all those hours are productive hard working hours. When I see a very low price I know it won't have sparkling components but, depending on the vehicle, sparkling components might not be needed - So long as the components are reliable and the vehicle isn't very demanding in terms of power or tech spec the system might have had the potential to give good and reliable results. What I do know when I see a very low price is that the system will be fitted poorly and calibrated in a hurry. I read the 'forums' on some done in a day installers sites and know the installer has written positive comments themselves. I repair a lot of done in a day installs where the vehicle owner has got fed up of going back to installer for the system to be put right or where the installer has got fed up of the vehicle owner and started to fob them off.

The middle prices have the most potential for varying results. Some mid priced installs look to me like they've been done in a day or have components that aren't of a spec I'd consider good enough for the vehicle to which they're fitted. Then there are a lot of very good installers charging mid prices, such installers fit components that are up to the job for the vehicle and do a good job of installation and calibration. It is difficult for a very good installer who charges mid prices to explain to a customer why the system they propose to fit and work they propose to do will be superior to the cheaper done in a day installers.

Like Mat, I suggest to the original poster that he starts to do installs and undercuts the good installers - I doubt he could do that and still build a good reputation - he would end up competing only with the done in a day installers and catering only for undemanding customers that half expect their vehicle not to run on LPG like it does on petrol - my customers expect no difference in running between fuels. In the days of the cheap done in a day installers most of the good installers that charge mid prices do so on the back of their reputations. Almost all my work now comes via recommendation, I haven't advertised for doing conversions for years, the only conversion work I get that doesn't come to me from recommendations is because some people see that I sell kits and correctly assume I also install systems. The original poster would be in for a shock and a learning curve when he starts to do some of the more difficult installs and when he attempts to palm his workmanship off on some customers.

Some of the above is from my personal perspective so I've said 'I' a lot but I'm not just blowing my own trumpet here, I know their are lots of installers who do and think the same as me.

Simon
Lpgc

[Tubbs]

Personally, kits always cost more than I make for the install. As I do every now and again, I phoned around a few of these paid google ads that arrive everywhere, in my email, on the banner at the top of this and many other forums. They seem more interested in selling me a credit card machine at the moment though.
Its surprising 4 cylinder cars only £800 ! How can I compete. Oh I see £800 plus vat...that's still a bit cheaper than me. Mr 'middle of the road' and 'does a tidy job' but no UKLPGA registration. 12 month or "lifetime" warranty lol. Even though the code of practice states 24 months. I feel sorry for prospective LPG converters. It is a bloody minefield out there.
Then you got the done in a day brigade. Fitting for cheaper than I can buy a decent system for. And quite happy to drop the vat if you pay pound notes.

[E46CoupeM3]

People wouldn't expect to hire a decorator to paint their house and pay no more then the price of a tin of paint and a roller from the local DIY store.
The decorator has overheads and needs to make a living (offset by getting things at trade prices as well of course).

On the other hand no one would automatically assume that those painting their own walls can't make a good job out of it either.

[Gilbertd]

It isn't worth keeping this thread going by commenting on it. If you look, gasbo posted the original post and then ran away to let people get their knickers in a knot. In fact, if you look at his other posts, that's all he ever seems to do. He's a troll and a stupid one at that.