flash lube, do I need it?

[yorkshire newbie]

Hi all,
I'm completely new to this. I am converting my 1.4 Kia Cee'd to run on LPG and have been advised to use flash lube. Do I really need to use this and what are the running costs? I have seen the price to buy it but have no idea how long 1 litre of it would last. Any help would be very gratefully appreciated.

[Tubbs]

1ml to each litre of fuel ?
And yes you will need it on a kia.

[phils]

is that for each litre of LPG or petrol? also is it all LPG systems or just the new injector systems?

[Tubbs]

Just a ballpark really, 1 litre of LPG to 1ml of flashlube.

[Gilbertd]

also is it all LPG systems or just the new injector systems?

It's for any engine with soft valve seats if run on a fuel without any valve saving lubricants. Older engines needed leaded fuel, more modern ones had harder valve seats to cope with unleaded fuel, which still has a valve saver additive, but manufacturers went a bit too far so the seats were hard enough to cope with no lubricant at all. Nowadays they have realised just how soft they can go that the seats are OK with unleaded with it's additives but not hard enough to cope with none at all.

[phils]

also is it all LPG systems or just the new injector systems?

It's for any engine with soft valve seats if run on a fuel without any valve saving lubricants. Older engines needed leaded fuel, more modern ones had harder valve seats to cope with unleaded fuel, which still has a valve saver additive, but manufacturers went a bit too far so the seats were hard enough to cope with no lubricant at all. Nowadays they have realised just how soft they can go that the seats are OK with unleaded with it's additives but not hard enough to cope with none at all.

Gilbertd that totaly lossed me lol I have no idea if my v8 chevy has soft or hard valve seats . how do you add it?

[Tubbs]

not required !

[yorkshire newbie]

Thanks Tubbs

[SnoozyBMW]

Errr, i think tubbs was referring to the chevy not needing flashlube.

I suspect a kia would need flashlube as the engines are largely made of plasticine

[yorkshire newbie]

Yes I got that thanks. Its amazing what they can make engines out of these days!!

[SnoozyBMW]

well i wouldn't think a hyundai/kia is a particularly good candidate for lpg as i suspect the engine component quality is too poor. Likely a cooked head gasket at 20-30k and valve probs (even with flaslube) 10 or 20k thereafter.


if i was looking to purchase a second hand lpg car, it would be bmw,audi,vw where the underlying components are known to go the distance and where the engines are designed to with stand over and above their maximum tolerances (german thinking)

I think hyundai and kia are trying to manufacture lpg cars in their native korea but realistically these companies are around 10-15 years off the pace with mech engineering, they just constantly copy (like the led lights from audi)

[phils]

as the engines are largely made of plasticine

[Gilbertd]

well i wouldn't think a hyundai/kia is a particularly good candidate for lpg as i suspect the engine component quality is too poor. Likely a cooked head gasket at 20-30k and valve probs (even with flaslube) 10 or 20k thereafter.

I was in Korea last year and virtually every vehicle you see is either a Hyundai or Kia, even the trucks and buses. All of the buses and taxis run on CNG which, like LPG, has no valve lubricant.

I cannot see how running LPG will cause a head gasket to blow any more than running on petrol would. VSR will affect any engine, including later BMW and Audi, if the valve seats aren't made from a sufficiently hard material. Would you also include the Malaysian built Proton in your generalisation? Proton offer an LPG option across their full range, something no German manufacturer has ever done.

[SnoozyBMW]

yes gilbert i would lump hyundai/kia/proton into the same group.

Just because a manufacturer offers lpg option does not make the engines better quality. Proton is probably at the bottom of the heap.

Since lpg system relies on the cooolant system of the car this can put strain on the temps and head gasket according to what i've read.

I guess the public must share some scepticism of theese budget car companies, since retained values usually fall around the 30-35% mark.

Do not think that it is a generalistion to note that german cars are better quality than those budget cars.

I know that your largely anti bmw et al since you have a saab (who when last i read were bankrupt)

[Gilbertd]

Running on LPG actually puts less strain on the cooling system as the flow through the vaporiser extracts heat rather than adding to it. There's so many old wives tales and misinformation about regarding the adverse affects of running on LPG mostly caused by the bad experiences of a friend of a friend of a bloke down the pub who once had one. The fact that the system was probably old, poorly fitted and probably never serviced in it's life. As someone that runs an LPG powered car, you should know that most of these stories aren't true.

The lead balloon depreciation of the earlier Far Eastern built cars is a known fact but isn't as true with the newer ones now they have realised that the world market expects something better than their home market will accept. It's no different to the depreciation of a Skoda in the old days but now VW have upped the standards, they have lost that reputation. But a Skoda Octavia will still depreciate more than a VW Passat even though they are effectively the same car.

I buy cars to do a job. My ex had an old E30 320i which I always thought was a beautifully made car and built like a brick outhouse. The Saab was getting a little tired after over a quarter million miles (including being driven to Russia and back twice) and I was planning on replacing it with either a Saab 95 estate or 5 series touring on LPG. A need to periodically tow a couple of tonnes meant that neither of these were viable so I went for the Range Rover instead. So no, I am not anti BMW at all (remember, my Range Rover was built by BMW) although I don't think the newer ones are as well built as they used to be. I appreciate good engineering and, if it was suitable for my purposes, I'd still consider owning one. The X5 is probably a far better built car than the L322 Range Rover (and has the same running gear) but I wouldn't own one as it only has a towing capacity of 2.3 tonnes compared with the 3.5 tonnes of the Rangie. I'm not anti Audi either but other than the original Quattro Coupe, the RS4 or maybe the S8, I wouldn't consider buying any of them. But that's purely because they look so bland and characterless.

As for Saab going bust, that happens to any manufacturing company when their standards are so high that the cost of producing their product is higher than the selling price the market will stand. Other manufacturers just drop their standards, even BMW if the amount of trouble a work colleague has had with his 525d Touring is anything to go by.

[SnoozyBMW]

Ive had a 2007 e90 since almost new and have found the build quality superb. Better than my my brothers e46 (which he bought new about 8 or 9 years ago). The e46 cabin was dated and somewhat drab. I really like the new 3 series, most people would admit that looks like a proper car. I suppose the problem would be trying to install lpg system on a direct injection, which bmw turned to on their petrol engine range from late 2007 onwards. I understand there are some kits available for d.i. But they also tend to use more petrol?

Anyways within the next decade i suspect lpg will largely have had its day and we will be turning to alternative means of fueling a car (hydrogen/electrical etc)

[john_d]

well i wouldn't think a hyundai/kia is a particularly good candidate for lpg as i suspect the engine component quality is too poor. Likely a cooked head gasket at 20-30k and valve probs (even with flaslube) 10 or 20k thereafter.


if i was looking to purchase a second hand lpg car, it would be bmw,audi,vw where the underlying components are known to go the distance and where the engines are designed to with stand over and above their maximum tolerances (german thinking)

I think hyundai and kia are trying to manufacture lpg cars in their native korea but realistically these companies are around 10-15 years off the pace with mech engineering, they just constantly copy (like the led lights from audi)

nowt wrong with hyundai or kia.

[Gilbertd]

Anyways within the next decade i suspect lpg will largely have had its day and we will be turning to alternative means of fueling a car (hydrogen/electrical etc)

That's the direction manufacturers are heading down now but in a lot of cases it isn't what the public want. The public want a car that can be run as cheaply as possible, to take them where they want to go and when they want to go. Electrical is out then, how do you do a 1,000 mile journey when you've got to stop and re-charge the batteries for 8 hours every 200 miles? Hydrogen is a combustible gas so you could run an internal combustion engine on it in the same way as we are running on propane or methane now rather than using it to produce electricity to power a vehicle. Personally I think CNG will start to become more commonplace. Natural gas is methane and that can be produced very easily from the rubbish and waste we are producing in an increasingly larger amounts. In Italy, it is already common with CNG pumps (metano) next to the LPG pumps on a lot of filling stations.

[SnoozyBMW]

well i wouldn't think a hyundai/kia is a particularly good candidate for lpg as i suspect the engine component quality is too poor. Likely a cooked head gasket at 20-30k and valve probs (even with flaslube) 10 or 20k thereafter.


if i was looking to purchase a second hand lpg car, it would be bmw,audi,vw where the underlying components are known to go the distance and where the engines are designed to with stand over and above their maximum tolerances (german thinking)

I think hyundai and kia are trying to manufacture lpg cars in their native korea but realistically these companies are around 10-15 years off the pace with mech engineering, they just constantly copy (like the led lights from audi)

nowt wrong with hyundai or kia.

Nothing much right with them either, have you seen the kia cerato and picanto lol

[Gilbertd]

Yes, my mother has a Picanto and has had it from new. The materials used are cheap and not up to the same quality as others but the car was cheap and you get what you pay for. But, ignoring the dashboard that looks like it is moulded from plasticine and the thin, tinny panels, it starts goes and stops and has done faultlessly for nearly 100,000 miles. You can pay a high price for something that is good quality or pay much less for something that does the job. Equally you can pay two different prices for virtually the same thing purely on the badge that is stuck on it, see Skoda Octavia, VW Passat, Audi A4 for the perfect example.