Do the injector banks need to be matched?

[Dualtechuk]

The hanas you have fitted look like 1.9ohm injectors where as the red valtek are 3.0ohm, so I would say that the ecu is set on the wrong type for one or the other, never going to work right like that. The hanas and valteks are available from tinleytech and others so no need to wait for parts from germany.
http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/acatalog/Mu ... Hana_.html
If it was me I would probably put hanas back on instead of valtek then get plugged into it to start finding out what realy is wrong with it.
A lot of ecu manufactures say that running the wrong injector selection could damage the ecu, but to be fair, ive seen lots of mismatched injectors/ecu's and havnt seen any damage, but it might be worth a mention to the 'installer'.
Another case of a little knowledge is a dangerous thing perhaps

Ah can see the zav ecu now!
Zavoli should run the valtek 30's ok, set to zavoli not matrix, but dont think there is a setting for hana 1.9's, I might be wrong though, bin a while, On the king (another aeb ecu the hanas work best on matrix HD i think, there may well be a setting for those?

[classicswede]

Setting the injectors as matrix the ECU's will drive the hana injectors ok like that. There is no setting in the Zavoli ECU to drive the valtek injectors as the Pan injectors are 8ohm iirc

[mat_fenwick]

Are you sure the other set are Hanas?

You can just make out "NA" on the injector closest to the dispstick, so would assume Hana.

[rossko]

I can assure you all the photo does not show PAN injectors.

[BigTed]

[BigTed]

Hi,

So I think I have valtek on the left and Hana on the right.

Others have mentioned that is may have had a set of Matrix Injectors when we first got it.

I see from the Zavoli catalogue that 'pans' are a Zavoli product.

I've emailed Zavoli as well for comment.

Thanks again for the info.

Ted

[BigTed]

Hi,

Zavoli said that their ECU is only warrantied for PANS nowadays.

They started running down the martix about 3 or 4 years ago in prefences for the PANS with the last two years being PANS only.

The 'warranty' for the matrix blocks would have been about two years.

A full set of PANS (2x4) with nozzles etc and tax etc is about £395 from Zavoli UK

I think I have all the info now.

Ted

[rossko]

Zavoli said that their ECU is only warrantied for PANS nowadays.

arr but your ECU is not a nowadays ECU....

What happens next? I guess your fitter will be fitting a matched set of something or others?

[Charlie Renard]

Mmmm.. but pans are only the same technology/quality as Valtek type 30's which are available from reputable suppliers for about £40 + vat per rail of 4!

[BigTed]

Hi,

Currently, I only want the vehicle to run without the emissions warning light coming on.

In the 11 months we've had it, I think the longest it hasn't complained about something* is about six weeks.

So I suppose I would like injectors that actually match the ECU electrical specifications.

Is that too much to ask for trouble free LPG motoring?

Ted

* Emissions, mis-firing, stalling at lights/reversing [it's automatic], failing over to petrol when theres gas in the tank etc.

[Gilbertd]

Mmmm.. but pans are only the same technology/quality as Valtek type 30's

But do they have identical opening delay, closing delay, flow rate, peak and hold requirements, etc? That's why each different injector type has a setting in the ECU so it can take these into account.

[BigTed]

Hi,

I just thought of anothe question, can this ECU individually control the injectors or sets of injectors? in this case send one set of signals to one bank and another to the second bank, thus enabling a mixed mode of manufacture?

thanks,

ted.

ps can't get to this server using my normal ip address at the moment.

[rossko]

I just thought of anothe question, can this ECU individually control the injectors or sets of injectors? in this case send one set of signals to one bank and another to the second bank, thus enabling a mixed mode of manufacture?

You'd never ever want to do that. It'd be impractical to account for all the dynamic variations between types, especially when they are so very different as Valteks and Hana and the ECU doesn't even have exactly the right base parameters for either.

Do your fitters have a plan to sort this out, or are you asking for advice on how to sort it out yourself?

[BigTed]

Hi,

It's in the garage right now.

I asked what injectors were going to be fitted and one of the owners suggested Prins or Keihins.

Which I think might be one in the same.

I think it will be an interesting conversation when I pick the car up.

Ted.

[rossko]

Interesting; Matrix are relatively expensive, but even they'd be cheaper than Keihin.
Prins mostly use Keihin, but there are now different Prins-badged injectors which may be rebadged Hana or suchlike, not Keihins.
Again, neither are formally supported by Zavoli firmware.

Gotta wonder why they don't just use the pukka parts ...

[Gilbertd]

Unless the label says Zavoli but the controller has been flashed with different firmware. The AEB unit in my P38 says it's a Bigas Pegaso on the label but it won't talk to the Bigas software but will talk to the Leonardo software.

However, I can't think of a firmware version for the AEB unit that is likely to accept Prins injectors......

[classicswede]

Mmmm.. but pans are only the same technology/quality as Valtek type 30's

But do they have identical opening delay, closing delay, flow rate, peak and hold requirements, etc? That's why each different injector type has a setting in the ECU so it can take these into account.

Pan and type 30's are nothing like.

[classicswede]

Interesting; Matrix are relatively expensive, but even they'd be cheaper than Keihin.
Prins mostly use Keihin, but there are now different Prins-badged injectors which may be rebadged Hana or suchlike, not Keihins.
Again, neither are formally supported by Zavoli firmware.

Gotta wonder why they don't just use the pukka parts ...

Going off what the OP has said the installers are used to fitting Prins. Like many other installers they have probably seen a lot of matrix injectors failing and don't want to fit a part that is likely to end up coming back failed.

They could well be aware that the settings in the AEB ECU for Matrix injectors are close enough to work.

The big shock is what they have stuck on while they wait for parts that could have been supplied on a next day basis. Sticking on some random injectors to prove where a problem is in the workshop is ok but you would never give a car back to a customer the way they have.

[rossko]

Never seen a Matrix fail as such. Seen one that had been stripped and reassembled incorrectly - fixed. Seen a set worn out at 150,000 miles, running rough and needing new shims. Thats it.

[BigTed]

Hi,

Picked dit up today, fresh set of Keihin fitted on the left bank, Hanas still on the right.

Drove for 24 miles, engine warning (emissions) light back on.

Getting bored of this.

Ted