Do the injector banks need to be matched?

[BigTed]

Hi,

We have a 2002 4 litre V8 Discovery 2 with an LPG conversion (can't work out which one - but garage is Prins certified)

It's been having a lot of problems when running on the gas (running rough 7/8 cylinders, vehicle emissions light on all the time when on gas - fine on petrol)

We've been through the whole smoke screen of 'dirty gas' / 'heavy ends' / stenching agents.

The garage is waiting on some 'injectors from Germany' to fix this issue, but I was looking under the bonnet yesterday and I can see I have a bank of Red Valteks and a bank of Hana injectors.

Is it common to mix and match?

Can the LPG ECU control the injectors enough to make up for design differences / manufacturing tolerences?

How much upset should I be?

Ted.

[Tubbs]

Quite upset I would doubt the ecu will cope with two unevenly matched injectors. Even if they are of similar resistances.

[john_d]

did it have prins injectors when it was 1st installed (or when you 1st got it) or has the garage maybe put them on whilst waiting on the parts "from germany"?

[classicswede]

Does not sound good at all

The Hana and Valtek injectors are suppoesed to be driven under differnt perameters and will have differnt flow rates and flow characteristics. Unless the system is one that can run a map for each bank then you are going to have problems.


Has it always been like this or have they just changed one rail to keep running while they are waiting on parts?

[BigTed]

Hi,

I've looked at the a picture of the engine bay from when we first got the vehicle and it didn't have the valtek injectors.

I beleive these were put in about two months after we got the car as it was stalling and the engine emissions light kept coming on.

So I wouldn't consider some sort of 'get-me-going' exercise, it was mean't to be a proper fix.

Regards,

Ted

[woody]

Hi Ted,can you post a few pics up of the main componants , ECU, Vaporiser etc, this will confirm if its Prins or not.
Hana injectors can be confused with Keihin as they are basically copies.
If it is a Prins system then there are some issues to address,firstly it sounds like another untrained and unaproved person without software trying to guess the problem by substituting componants,miss matched injectors are never going to work even though the ecu is capable of driving them.
A uk Prins approved installer would not be getting parts from Germany as there is a fully stocked UK importer in southampton,so this rings the old alarm bells.
Did you get any fault codes when you went in for the original diagnosis?? if so these may help with fault finding.
I would also ask for your injectors back[if they are keihin] as these are top quality and expensive and very likely nothing wrong with them,this would or should start to make you feel a little on the upset side as i doubt substittuting the valteks has made any difference.
Call will on the number below for the details of your local Prins approved installer,dont waste your time and money on someone who aint up to the job.

Conversions
Will Putter
02380 446467
will@prinsautogasuk.co.uk

HTH Woody

[rossko]

background that may be relevant: 'Lima' systems were essentially Prins with Valtek injectors.
But then we don't yet know there are any Prins parts here at all.

[BigTed]

Hi,

I'll get some pictures up later this week - what is the best way to share pictures on this board (I see there is a 256K limit on file attachements and the board Quota has been reached)

I forgot to mention we're on month 11 of ownership of the car.

The Injectors from Germany part is streching my natural capacity for empathy with another business owner.

Thanks for the support,

Ted.

[Gilbertd]

I'll get some pictures up later this week - what is the best way to share pictures on this board (I see there is a 256K limit on file attachements and the board Quota has been reached)

Upload your pictures to photobucket or a similar site, then link to them in your posts. If you use the [img] command they will appear in your posts.

[BigTed]

Hi,

Sorry for the poor camera work, I'll get some more using a proper camera at the weekend - car leaves in the dark and comes home in the dark just now.

Valtek



Hana



Original Engine bay February 2012 - Note left side injectors not red in colour.

[Gilbertd]

Where have they hidden the injectors? Can't even see them on the under bonnet shot.

[rossko]

Following the hose, looks like the vaporiser will be at rear passenger side of engine bay. Following the wiring, ECU will be in or on the jack box.
Doesn't look like Prins injectors in the first place.

[woody]

Possibly looking for the Prins soundalike not lookalike . as in Prinz...


woody

[classicswede]

I think that is quite likely

[Tubbs]

You have all got better eyesight than me i cant see a piggin thing under the bonnet, i can just make out the pipe ross is on about

[rossko]

I think that's a Matrix injector bank in the old photo

[BigTed]

Hi,

Some better photos -

[rossko]

It's a Zavoli Aleisi system, probably did have Matrix injectors to begin with. I find Matrix long lived and generally reliable, the internal shims wear through at very high mileages.

Looks like the original Matrix vapour filters are still in situ.

Zavoli don't explicitly support either Valtek or Hana injectors. Not to say they won't work, but could be fiddly to set up properly. Obviously they all need to be alike.

There are no Prins parts in sight.

[BigTed]

Hi,

Thanks for the information - There is still warranty left on the LPG system - I didn't ask at the time if they [prins dealer] had installed it, I guess it was inferred.

I'll ask what the make of the ones coming from 'Germany' are and maybe point out it might be best if they were all matched.

So it looks like the replaced the matrix injectors (£100?) last year with valteks (£25?)

I just assumed I was getting like for like.

Ted.

[Gilbertd]

Are you sure the other set are Hanas? They could be Zavoli Pan (http://www.autogasetneo.be/en/webshop/a ... njector/88) which would make sense. Although you are right on the pricing, Pans reduced to around 55 quid each while Valteks are a lot less http://autogas-lpg.co.uk/injector-seque ... -0025.html