one for installers- is it ok to cable tie injectors?

[classicswede]

I've seen many installs with the injector rails simply cable tied into position and have done the same on some cars myself.

I have had this aproach challenged so would like some input from other installers on the subject.

[rossko]

I don't have a problem with using ties. There are many possible configurations, both of installation and types of injector. Securing is about preventing damage to anything else, or pulling off of hoses etc. I can't see any purpose in insisting on metal bracketry when half the engine it is attached to might be plastic.

[Tubbs]

Personally. I always look at the possibilty of making up brackets. And see cable ties as a bit of a last resort. But sometimes you don't have an option. Cop 11 says securely mounted. Well that's up for debate I suppose. As Ross says certain cars you don't stand a hope without getting a tec screw and going straight through the inlet manifold to secure it. Which is asking for trouble in my book. But I've seen it done. So I don't know really. 6 of 1 and a 1/2 dozen of the other I suppose.

[demonicwillow]

What about the 6mm copper gas feed from the rear tank to the engine compartment, my pipe is tucked out of the way and I have been offroading with the jeep for quite some time without any problems, the pipe is secured with large good quality cable ties which are impossible to break the pipe is very well secured to the brake pipes all nice n neat, if the pipe ever got hung up on something whilst offroading a metal p clip aint gonna make no difference to a strong cable tie, the pipe runs along the nearside far away from the exhaust but has to pass nearish to the side of the tunnel where the down pipe comes down, actually had a look the other day to check everything for the new install and it was all secured perfect, are strong cable ties ok or does it have to be secured with metal p clips ??

[mat_fenwick]

I'm interested in this, as my first installation was failed specifically (amongst other reasons) due to the fact that cable ties rather than P clips were used. I haven't got a copy of CoP 11 to hand, but I'll be checking later...

I had fastened them to original holes in the metalwork rather than existing pipes, and only used P clips where there was no alternative. My reasoning was to prevent rust starting around the clips.

[classicswede]

The issue I've had is with this Ford Exploder

Bolting into the thin plastic manifold whould have been a bad idea in my opinion.

[classicswede]

What about the 6mm copper gas feed from the rear tank to the engine compartment, my pipe is tucked out of the way and I have been offroading with the jeep for quite some time without any problems, the pipe is secured with large good quality cable ties which are impossible to break the pipe is very well secured to the brake pipes all nice n neat, if the pipe ever got hung up on something whilst offroading a metal p clip aint gonna make no difference to a strong cable tie, the pipe runs along the nearside far away from the exhaust but has to pass nearish to the side of the tunnel where the down pipe comes down, actually had a look the other day to check everything for the new install and it was all secured perfect, are strong cable ties ok or does it have to be secured with metal p clips ??

I'm fairly certain that metal clips are specified and should be used.

[Gilbertd]

Not quite but it seems that cable ties aren't acceptable:

4.4.3 Pipelines should be effectively secured to the chassis frame or body shell using purpose
designed pipe clips at intervals of not exceeding 600 mm and in such a manner to be
protected against excessive strain and vibration.

> Plastic strapping, tie wrap etc is not suitable

Mind you, I've got a fair selection of different tie wraps from big ones that the police refer to as 'quick cuffs' and are used as an alternative to handcuffs and also some with metal locking teeth that came my way via an F1 team. I'd bet either are considerably stronger than a metal P clip as long as there's something strong enough to attach to.

[demonicwillow]

Mind you, I've got a fair selection of different tie wraps from big ones that the police refer to as 'quick cuffs' and are used as an alternative to handcuffs and also some with metal locking teeth that came my way via an F1 team. I'd bet either are considerably stronger than a metal P clip as long as there's something strong enough to attach to.

Exactly ... thas the ones I have, cuff yourself in those and no way will they be broken

[Gilbertd]

I wonder what an inspector would say if you used plastic clips like the ones used for 10mm microbore central heating pipe? 10mm outside diameter is probably about right for an 8mm internal diameter LPG pipe and CoP11 does say 'purpose designed pipe clips' but not what purpose they have to be designed for........

[sijones]

pretty sure it say's plastic coated clips tho?...

[classicswede]

They are not happy with this either







can anyone see anything wrong?[/

[Tubbs]

Actually it doesnt, just purpose made pipe clips at intervals no longer than 600mm. Nothing about rubber sleeved. So you can use metal p clips on poly pipe, not that i do, but i got millions of the ones that come with the kits. Im listing a loads of stuff on ebay the weekend, im swimming in water tees, the black valtek canister filters and metal p clips....my user name is mc_tubbs by the way. Just incase anyone wants any of it

[Tubbs]

Hmm, nothing that really contravenes cop 11 that i can see. Personally i always put some split conduit over the pipe before i cable tie it down, just so the pipe wont rub against the metal.
Cant find anything about the filter needing to be secured at all. And i have a copy of cop 11 in front of me.
I think the inspector is being somewhat pedantic i would say.

[demonicwillow]

Personally I think the idea of the cop 11 in principle is a good idea but should be a government thing and not private enterprise who sold a scheme to insurance companies to make money from old rope, gas certification isnt a requirement in law although now I do believe a leak test and tank security as in properly bolted down is now part of the mot, basically I have to drill holes everywhere to secure ridiculous p clips which a some time will cause corrossion, tis easier to find an insurance company who dont require an lpg certificate and there are quite a few around

[Gilbertd]

What would the inspector prefer you to use? Or would he rather everything just dangled around anywhere? There doesn't appear to be any requirement in CoP11 for low pressure pipelines to be secured in any way. and what's wrong with the fuseholder?

[sijones]

tis easier to find an insurance company who dont require an lpg certificate and there are quite a few around

Then start listing them for us... I phoned a number of them beginning of sept, including Adrian Flux and Chris Knot and all said they now require a safety certificate, i.e. on the register.

Will be nice for others to be able to know where to go.

[classicswede]

Its not an inspector just a customer who thinks he know everything. A long story so I'll PM you a link to a thread he started on another forum.

[Tubbs]

Its not an inspector just a customer who thinks he know everything. A long story so I'll PM you a link to a thread he started on another forum.

Be intersted to have a read as well. We all get them ocasionally.

[classicswede]

PM sent. If you have any questions about anything raised in the linked post let me know.