Mercedes ML500 LPG converted

[rossko]

Yep its that one.

Not quite. My injector drive issue was specific to the Mint/Ultragas ECU that you appear not to have. Might be a variation on the theme, or not related at all

[simonp]

Not quite. My injector drive issue was specific to the Mint/Ultragas ECU that you appear not to have. Might be a variation on the theme, or not related at all

probbly unrelated then?

In other news, Ive just been out for a full on drive at all load conditions on hills, corners, straights etc. The misfire at high RPM is now gone, i cant get it to do it no matter what. It was doing it as recently as three days ago. Could that have just been a sticky injector all along?!? Would be interesting if it was as I was told on my last visit they had all been changed. Could the ambient temperature be to blame in some way?

Anyway, as things currently stand the conversion appears to be performing optimally and I hope that I dont have to go back for more work. Thats a far cry from two days ago when it wouldnt even work at all, but im happy. Its been way more hassle than I would have liked so far, and frankly for an extra 750 quid i think a brand name kit with an installer from the forums here would have been a better route for me to have taken. On the other hand, mint have fallen over themselves to help when problems have been raised, so thats a big plus in their favor.

Will feed back to this thread if any more prolems crop up or updates on how things are going furhter down the line.

[simonp]

Pavel called this morning to see how things are going and i let him know that it all seems to be working ok as of last night.

since then, unfortunately it stopped working - seems to be same symptoms, cuts over to gas and dies. The lines to the injectors are definately pressurised. Ive text pavel so hopefully they can sort it out.

*update* Edward has called me from Mint and after describing the symptoms think that somehow the pressure is too high for the injectors to open against (makes perfect sense tbh). Mint are going to come to my place tomorrow to troubleshoot and resolve, which is fantastic in my view. While I am not happy that so many things have gone wrong, i really can't fault mints customer service again here.

[rossko]

think that somehow the pressure is too high for the injectors to open against (makes perfect sense tbh).

That does tie in with no-go after a short heat soak during refuelling (raising pressure in the rail) and bursting into life after strip (which relieves trapped pressure).

One cure just might yet be bigger peak in the peak-n-hold drive ... ! that's not readily tweaked in King firmware, but there are options for them follow up.

[Gilbertd]

I may be a cynic but don't you think the customer service you are receiving isn't the norm, more a case that UKLPG are looking over their shoulder and they don't want to lose their approval? I have a suspicion that were you just a punter complaining you may have been fobbed off or ignored by now.

I wouldn't have ever had any confidence in the system previously. Even if the cutting out when changing over had only ever happened the once, it's done it once so may do it again. Next time the truck might be a few feet closer......

[tommo2009]

Mint LPG's philosophy of done in a day has been sort of forced upon them, there is another installer just up the road from them and they are the main "do it in a day" installers in South wales. Mint had to follow suit to try and stay in business as many many people are now going for the cheapest and easiest option which tends to be the 1 day installs.

I along with many other on here don't agree with 1 day installs, but the market is pushing towards it.

There are a lot of small easy to convert cars out there that may well be able to be done in a day and because they are not a high demand engine will run just fine with a lower qaulity kit.

however as you have found out, the ML500 is a fairly high demanding engine. It is an easy engine to convert and takes well to LPG and it is also very easy to make it look neat and tidy with very little showing. It does however need a kit that is up to the job.
As you have mentioned, mint's cutomer service has been very good, but as a first LPG experience it would have been better had you not had to use it.

It is a shame that you have had a bad experience with Mint as they are one of the original suppliers, installers. But it just goes to show how the industry is being pushed towards 1 day installs that are not adequatley done.

I have no affiliation with mint LPG or autogas worldwide, this is just my opinion.

[Tubbs]

I agree with tommo. Its a huge shame that you have had such a bad time with this. But the good thing about Mint is that they haven't tried to swerve the issues that you have had. And as you say the customer service has been very good. Personally i believe that it would have been the same if the UKLPGA had not been involved. Autogas worldwide have been in this industry a very, very long time and its a shame that they have chosen to go down the 'done in a day' route. But if thats what the market forces dictate then thats the way that it goes i suppose. Personally i still disagree with the ethos. At the end of the day you are fitting a completely new fuel system onto a car. Time and care is required. Yes sure we all have cars that are done and dusted in a little under 12hrs from time to time. Generally ones we have done a good few times before and know where everything fits nicely. But taking that risk day after day on whatever walks in the door is bound to lead to issues.
Its going to ruin the industry in the end. Personally i feel if the customer wants a done in a day install then they can go to one of the many companies that will. If they want a proper job then choose a proper installer.
I also have no affiliation to mint !

[simonp]

Hi everyone,
Thanks for the input and support. I just wanted to update you all as to the progress of how things have gone.

The issue with the injectors not opening was resolved. Mint came to my house to perform the work, Edward himself came out, and he discovered that the vaporiser had failed. The screw attaching the diaphragm had failed and the vaporiser was allowing full pressure down to the injectors, which of course could not open against the pressure. Doh! The unit was changed and off I went. Edward also gave me his direct number for me incase anything went wrong.

Unfortunately, the next day the system began cutting over to petrol after about 50 miles of driving, irrespective of the tank contents (half full, full, etc). The problem would resolve if the engine cooled down and then it would run again for about 40 to 50 miles on LPG, then start giving off the same symptoms. I rang Edward who was literally dismayed at the latest development. We had a long chat on the phone and he agreed the experience I had was sub par, that I had been very flexible with getting things put right and he asked for one more chance to be able to resolve the issues. He said that if after this latest round of fixes things still did not work or something went wrong, he would have the kit fully removed and a full refund given. I agreed, so Edward came down on friday, took my car away for the weekend and left a coutesy car (same type - ml500) for me to use while mine was being worked on. The courtesy car had exactly the same components and kit as my car and frankly, I could not fault it at all it worked great. Same car, same kit, but completely different experience.

Edward personally returned my car on sunday to me and went through what was found. He and his team have taken a hard look at the vaporisers used and have found that the latest batch appears to be below par. He has taken this up with the manufacturer and geniunely seemed disapponted with his supliers and potential damage to his companies reputation because of those.

Im my case, Edward upgraded the vaporiser, filter etc to the Romano system, free of charge. By way of apology, Edward also returned the car to me with a full tank of LPG and a full tank of petrol (which is about £150 'all in' on the ML) - and there was also the free 60 litres of LPG on my last visit to their premises. Ive driven it today up to london and I cant fault it so far. No misfiring when booting it. Petrol trims and fuel economy all dead on accurate. Cuts over when the tank is empty, and takes the full tank capacity when filling up. of course, this is just my first trip out on the new system and I will update this thread if anything begins to go wrong, however fingers are crossed that, as I said to edward, "hopefully you dont see me again until the 10k service"

All in all, ive been back (or mint have come to me) to get things resolved more than I would have liked to. Mint have given great customer service at every step and I really cant fault them on that regard. when things were becoming a bit of a mickey take for having to go back there, they recognised this and began coming to me to resolve the issues (while im 'local' in the grand scheme of things, im still an hours drive from mint HQ). They have also have given me the free upgrade in components as well as about £200 worth of fuel by way of an apology for the inconvinience.

Its a huge shame that you have had such a bad time with this. But the good thing about Mint is that they haven't tried to swerve the issues that you have had. And as you say the customer service has been very good. Personally i believe that it would have been the same if the UKLPGA had not been involved

I fully agree, Edward really seemed to care that this car wasnt going right, even after the UKLPG issues were resolved. He never once has asked me to write anything about my positive experinces online, nor to remove or modify anything in this thread. His focus was purely on getting the car running right. I saw a bit of me in him as he was working, in so far that I need to find out the reason for problems and it will bug the hell out of me until they are fixed. The engineers spirit.

however as you have found out, the ML500 is a fairly high demanding engine. It is an easy engine to convert and takes well to LPG and it is also very easy to make it look neat and tidy with very little showing. It does however need a kit that is up to the job.
As you have mentioned, mint's cutomer service has been very good, but as a first LPG experience it would have been better had you not had to use it.

I believe that the kit they originally installed is up to the job, were it not for the problem with the batch of vaporisers. The courtesy ML had the same engine size, exact same kit and components and worked flawlessly. I agree it would have been better not to need the customer service, but Mint have certainly done well in this area. I just hope that now there are no more problems and I get many thousands of miles of happy, cheap, green motoring out of the old boat now, and that Mint resolve the problem with the manufacturer to their satisfaction. I would be trully pissed off with my supplier if something I warrantied and supplied to my customers turned out to have problems and was causing reputational damage to my business.

I may be a cynic but don't you think the customer service you are receiving isn't the norm, more a case that UKLPG are looking over their shoulder and they don't want to lose their approval? I have a suspicion that were you just a punter complaining you may have been fobbed off or ignored by now..

A valid point, however by that point mint had already resolved the issues that UKLPG had pointed out, so as far as that was concerned the issues were already fixed. There was therefore, at that point, no incentive for Mint to perform any remidal work in order to appease the UKLPG. Everything they then did was for customer service, possibly with this thread in mind, but more likely just their normal customer service levels. If Edward had been overly worried about this thread, I think there would have been some incentive for him or his staff to encourage me to write positive things, or perhaps even a statement from mint themselves on here. there was none of that, just almost a tunnel vision with getting the car right and making sure I was happy. Even with the problems, Edward knew there was a solution to them and things could be ironed out - a good engineering mind IMHO.

Overall experience so far; really disapponted so many things went wrong. Happy that Mint did the right things to put things right and really chuffed that they want to ensure their work is done right. I have never asked for any kind of compensation or apology, but they have done that anyway. As im not an installer and I dont have that much experience with LPG, Im not sure how many of the problems were down to '1 day install' pressures, but a bad batch of components certainly wouldnt fit into that category in my view. Perhaps some of the initial problems that the UKLPG found (such as a badly routed line, some fouling etc) could be put down to '1 day install' timeframes (and possibly the initial tune too), but they seem relatively minor. Edward did say that he has worked with his staff to ensure those issues are not repeated in future.

Anyway, hopefully this thread will not be updated with any more problems I have experienced. As I said, if something else crops up, Mint have offered a full kit removal so Im really hoping things dont go wrong any further.

[Tubbs]

Simon, im glad mint seem to have resolved your issues......Edward Davies is an engineer through and through. And one of the good guys in this industry as he has shown with his attitude to this problem.
Which is why im at a loss to why he has decided to go down the 'done in a day' route. As tommo said, its something that has been forced upon the company due to geographical reasons. Or market forces.
Only Edward can comment on that i suppose. But he doesnt seem to get on here much. Which is a shame, as the man has decades of LPG knowledge.

[classicswede]

spot on, thats the one

Rated to 450bhp apparently http://www.autogasgroup.co.uk/ProductDesc.aspx?uid=14

That is not a Magic 111 reducer but a copy from Turkey. Magic only rate the reducer at 350BHP with twin outlet.

[simonp]

After the initial problems, the old girl has sailed through just shy of 10k of driving. Ive noticed the trims have stepped out over time but not to a worrying extent, but it is due a service soon so im sure its just an ecu reset and adjustment thats required.

one thing I did notice today, im off to france and needed a copy of the screen showing the car on the lpga register, but when i go there tonight (drivelpg) the car is showing as not on the register. It definately was as the guy from drivelpg inspected the car after it was registered, as well as my insurance company confirming it when i notified them of the conversion. Is anyone else seeing a temporary problem with the site if they put their reg in?

going to call mint in the morning and arrange the service, will check to see if they have any details abou tthe register either. But in general, since the initial problems were ironed out shes ran great, you wouldnt know the difference from petrol or lpg other than the cost. Thanks to everyone here on the forums that helped with advice when things were not looking too good.

[rossko]

Is anyone else seeing a temporary problem with the site if they put their reg in?

Mine is fine right now.

[simonp]

thanks Rossko.. Looks fine for me today too. weird, must have been an issue with their site.