newbie, hello astra G 1.8

[joshnosh]

tinley sell tanks on there own which are slightly more expensive but a lot still under 100 quid!
yet if you work it out there charging 270 quid for the tank, multivalve, sender, and filler

yet i can buy the tank (from them) for £100
filler £30
multivalve £50
sender £15

which is 195?
so im paying 75 for what? the support?
just dont get it lol!

*edit* iv just spoken to them

basicly the extra money is for the tank box, vents, straps and bulkhead equipment but i dont really need any off it because im buying a torodial tank.
so where really toroidal tanks they charge more for (because the tanks cost more) they should charge the same or slightly less because your not getting the same stuff!

i think id rather just buy my own stuff.
i know you guys recomended a full kit, but for the price i think i would rather just struggle lol

[Tubbs]

i "think" the astra engines have sodium filled valves and hardened seats.

That engine code is for definate on the cautionary notice list. I know the factory fit ones have a different cylinder head. Prolly with the sodium valves and hardened seats. Obviously its your decision. And as you know enough to install a system without any technical support. Have a good knowledge of k line and can bus diagnostic systems. I'm sure you have read and understood the ukplga cop11 fully. I doubt you will need to come in here asking any questions either

[joshnosh]

i "think" the astra engines have sodium filled valves and hardened seats.

That engine code is for definate on the cautionary notice list.

on whos cautionary list??

[sijones]

on whos cautionary list??

There's basically a list of cars that are reported to suffer from VSR. Yours is on it so we suggest you put a manual vacuum lube system on... although if you want to do it "proper" then stick an electronic one on it, although manual one might suffice.

[joshnosh]

on whos cautionary list??

There's basically a list of cars that are reported to suffer from VSR. Yours is on it so we suggest you put a manual vacuum lube system on... although if you want to do it "proper" then stick an electronic one on it, although manual one might suffice.

ok . where can i find this list?
iv seen the prins one and my engines not on there?

im still not sure which frount end kit to go for though. the king one is the one i want but should i buy the junior non obd one or the standard one?
dose anyone have any experiance with the king kits from tinley?

[joshnosh]

what about this sitehttp://autogas-lpg.co.uk/10-conversion-kit

anyone have any experiance off them? or the kits on sale? some off them are dirt cheap! possibly too cheap lol

[Tubbs]

Actually the list does say z18xe from 2004 on. Personally i wouldnt take the risk. But hey, what do i know.
Yeh go with autogas-lpg. Also known as gas price and autogaspol. Exactly what you are looking for actually. Missing bits, No contact phone number. No replying to emails, Bare kits, a real struggle.
But at least you will save a few quid as you dont need any tech support.
You get what you pay for. And you certianly will !
King is an AEB ecu. Specify what you want injector and reducer wise. Dont worry they will email you until they have had your money.
Obd kits are better for a couple of reasons. On a 2002 car it would be preferable. Obviously you know why, but what a lot of people dont know about obd and non obd systems is they are unable to blend petrol in. But you shoudnt have to as long as you specify the right reducer and get your nozzle sizing right.
But im sure you have all that in hand afterall.

[joshnosh]

Actually the list does say z18xe from 2004 on.

which list lol? where is this magic list? are you sure you dont mean z18xer? vaux engine codes are easy to muddle up as there so similar.
iv been told they where designed to take LPG from the start and im not arguing with you just saying what iv been told

i need to replace my engine as its knackered vauxhall astra 1.8 Z18XE because its lpg factory fitted can i just buy a normal Z18XE petrol engine and ill swapthe inlet manifold over

Yes, there is no difference in the actual engine, only the additional bits that are added as part of the LPG installation. When swapping over, be very careful to make sure you don't miss off or damage any of the electrical connections.

Yeh go with autogas-lpg. Also known as gas price and autogaspol. Exactly what you are looking for actually. Missing bits, No contact phone number. No replying to emails, Bare kits, a real struggle.
But at least you will save a few quid as you dont need any tech support.
You get what you pay for. And you certianly will !
King is an AEB ecu. Specify what you want injector and reducer wise. Dont worry they will email you until they have had your money.

yeah yeah! alright Mr sarcastic i was just asking if there any good and i can see from your reply that there not.

i do want tech support! i just decided to risk it and buy the rear end it parts ad hoc and hope that the rear end is fine. might be a bad choice but im happy with my choice

Obd kits are better for a couple of reasons. On a 2002 car it would be preferable. Obviously you know why, but what a lot of people dont know about obd and non obd systems is they are unable to blend petrol in. But you shoudnt have to as long as you specify the right reducer and get your nozzle sizing right.
But im sure you have all that in hand afterall.

tad confused. your saying that both the systems where one option comes with obd cant belnd in petrol?
but the systems that dont feature obd on any moddles can?

will tinley give me the right reducer and nozzle sizeing?

[Tubbs]

Josh, sorry, and yes i was being sarcastic. So appologies. Its just a lot of people think its a relitively easy thing to do. But then come a cropper, at the end of the day you are messing about with something pretty dangerous. So its best to not overestimate your skills and the fact that you will probarbly need more support than you think you will. Thats the point im trying to get across is all. And if you want a UKLPG ticket and it on the database then it needs to adhere to an installation code of practice.
Non OBD kits are unable to blend petrol in, OBD kits can. An OBD kit is better because it constantly monitors the fuel trims coming out of the petrol ECU via a wire from the diagnostic socket. And then makes tiny adjustments to suit and keep everything in line. Its all pretty clever stuff really.

[joshnosh]

progress though. iv measured my boot and i can get in 2 different tires that are both slightly bigger than 630 so im risking it and going for the a 47lt 630 diameter tank. i just have to hope it actually is 630! and not rounded down lol

im going to buy the tank and the multi valve from here
http://www.gasit.co.uk/
i have already emailed the guy to check that iv selected the right valve and he was helpfull
not very helpfull... just helpfull

Josh, sorry, and yes i was being sarcastic. So apologies. Its just a lot of people think its a relatively easy thing to do. But then come a cropper, at the end of the day you are messing about with something pretty dangerous. So its best to not overestimate your skills and the fact that you will probably need more support than you think you will. Thats the point im trying to get across is all. And if you want a UKLPG ticket and it on the database then it needs to adhere to an installation code of practice.

no apologies required, your sarcasm is warranted although i take you advice less seriously when your taking the piss lol

id like to think its relatively easy because i like to trick my brain into thinking it will be easy so i have a better attitude towards the project and ill get over any problems quicker.... but im sure your right. its probably harder then it looks.

that's why im going to buy the front end from tinley so i can get support and get them to select the right bits for my car. getting the right rear end stuff seems to be quite straight forward though. i might be deluding myself but i can only go on what limited knowledge i have picked up in my research.

i intend to do this "by the book" and i will need to read up on the standards before i fit it
dose anyone know where i can get a copy off them?
secondly how do i get my car in the uklpg database and how much dose it cost generaly?

Non OBD kits are unable to blend petrol in, OBD kits can. An OBD kit is better because it constantly monitors the fuel trims coming out of the petrol ECU via a wire from the diagnostic socket. And then makes tiny adjustments to suit and keep everything in line. Its all pretty clever stuff really.

ok so defiantly worth the extra 30 quid then! i understand OBD tech to a certain extent already. iv got an opcom for my car so i play around with it quite often and i used to be a member of a car pc club and people where always doing DIY programmable chips to interface with the opcom and drive a little screen.

[mat_fenwick]

i just have to hope it actually is 630! and not rounded down lol

If it is larger you would be entitled to return it as not matching the description, but why not ask first if someone can pop down with a tape measure. I've found Nick and Warren to be pretty helpful to me.

secondly how do i get my car in the uklpg database and how much dose it cost generaly?

You don't *have* to get your car on the database unless your particular insurance company requires it - some do, some don't Getting it on their depends on you finsing a UKLPG installer who is willing to certify your system - some are reluctant, possibly for fear of you bringing it back after 6 weeks claiming "But YOU said it was all OK!"

PM me an email address and I can send you a copy of the COP11 text.

[rossko]

[OBD] ok so defiantly worth the extra 30 quid then!

But as you're grumbling about 30 quid elsewhere, consider:
On a well set-up LPG system, the OBD option/capability does absolutely nothing.
If you set it up carefully with autocal and perhaps some hand tweaking, the petrol system trims remian the same on either fuel.
That is difficult for people without access to OBD, but you have that access and understand what its telling you ...

[jaafar]

If installing your LPG system is for fun then this is OK but if it is about savings then this false economy.
Had my Honda accord Sport 2.0 year 2005 converted for £980. AEB based system. life time warranty on labour. 2 years on parts. service every 10000 miles for £ 35.
running so smooth and doing 320 miles on 48 liter LPG at 69.9p a liter.( 320 miles cost £32).
peace of mind. installer only 30 miles from where I live.

Yes I am not a mechanic. If some one is not mechanic or engineer then installing LPG to me is like playing with fire.
Consider the time you are going to spend.

I looked at the parts they fitted in my car and they cost nearly £480. to do it in 16 hours ( that is 2 people working on it as I actually was sitting there in their garage) it is solid work. one working on the tank and the other work on the bits under the bonnet. £500 divided by 16 hours is £ 31.25 per hour. that is very reasonable charge for professional job. when they finished and tested it and every thing was ok, they called a third person from Mint LPG who came and done another half an hour testing (as a quality control) then they were happy to hand me the car.

I paid by credit card and the interests on it around £16 per month. I am saving £115 per month as I am doing 1500 plus milage every month.

That what I meant by NOT risking it with false economy

Best wishes

[lpgnewbbie]

I fitted a Stag 300 ISA 2 to my car, never fitted a system before, and took lots of pics.
I am a mechanical engineer so figured if I can't figure this out then something is a miss.
My car does have OBD, but is a 1999 and the OBD reader I have does not talk to it. So passed on OBD
I got the whole system for £450 from 3 suppliers, fitted it in 24h over a weekend. Did run into 1 problem. Contacted the ebay seller Gas4cars and Stag Poland, they replied the next day with the same solution I expected.
You would be surprised how helpful Stag Poland are if you ask a direct question.
No leaks and system is installed to SEP as I don't have a copy of COP 11 and UKLPG don't reply to emails. Funny thing is SEP covers everything I have seen posted about COP 11, but then again COP 11 is probably based on SEP.
Since install I have had no issues, it runs like a dream out the box apart from a small issue, wiring looms are generic, and will not fit all cars, I had to swap all the pins in the petrol in and petrol out sockets on the LPG ECU, it was monitoring the non pulsed line, hence no petrol injectors found in the software.
Tips, measure the pipes to your heater matrix before you order, make a list of what you might need. find a wiring diagram for the eingine bay. Ask questions if your unsure. The postage adds up fast if you miss one t piece or bit of pipe.
All I can say is have a go if you are confident you can do it and if you think it might unsafe it probably is.
Gas is not something you want to play with if your unsure, if the multivalve leaks between the tank/valve and the gas lights you have a blow torch you might be able to put out, but is still leaking and what are you going to do?

[sijones]

apart from a small issue, wiring looms are generic, and will not fit all cars, I had to swap all the pins in the petrol in and petrol out sockets on the LPG ECU, it was monitoring the non pulsed line, hence no petrol injectors found in the software.

You must have selected a plug in loom for the injectors then, and it was the wrong one for your car. Standard looms for petrol injectors are cut in looms where you would find the negative yourself and cut it and solder in the LPG looms wires.

[markocosic]

Stag software assumes that the earth is switched on the injectors by default, but in the ACGasSynchro software there's a tick-box for injectors where the positive is switched, so you can change this in software rather than switching the pins around - at least on the 300 Premium systems.

[sijones]

Stag software assumes that the earth is switched on the injectors by default, but in the ACGasSynchro software there's a tick-box for injectors where the positive is switched, so you can change this in software rather than switching the pins around - at least on the 300 Premium systems.

Errmmm your getting a bit confused, if the pins are the wrong way round ticking this box aint going to do anything.

This is for when the petrol ECU switches the petrol injectors by using the positive, but most ECU's switch using neg and that's why it's the default.

[lpgnewbbie]

According to the wiring diagram and the pin layout of the ECU it only monitors a single line from the petrol ECU, not both +ve and -ve lines, so if the pins are the wrong way round switching the software settings will do nothing, your still monitoring the wrong line.

[joshnosh]

[OBD] ok so defiantly worth the extra 30 quid then!

But as you're grumbling about 30 quid elsewhere, consider:
On a well set-up LPG system, the OBD option/capability does absolutely nothing.
If you set it up carefully with autocal and perhaps some hand tweaking, the petrol system trims remian the same on either fuel.
That is difficult for people without access to OBD, but you have that access and understand what its telling you ...

yes but for 30 quid im getting something that might be very useful insted of getting nothing for £70 lol

ill try to set it up as best i can and ill see if it runs without the obd
id rather not rely on my limited obd skills though.
iv bought it now so ill see how it gose!

[joshnosh]

I fitted a Stag 300 ISA 2 to my car, never fitted a system before, and took lots of pics.
I am a mechanical engineer so figured if I can't figure this out then something is a miss.
My car does have OBD, but is a 1999 and the OBD reader I have does not talk to it. So passed on OBD
I got the whole system for £450 from 3 suppliers, fitted it in 24h over a weekend. Did run into 1 problem. Contacted the ebay seller Gas4cars and Stag Poland, they replied the next day with the same solution I expected.
You would be surprised how helpful Stag Poland are if you ask a direct question.
No leaks and system is installed to SEP as I don't have a copy of COP 11 and UKLPG don't reply to emails. Funny thing is SEP covers everything I have seen posted about COP 11, but then again COP 11 is probably based on SEP.
Since install I have had no issues, it runs like a dream out the box apart from a small issue, wiring looms are generic, and will not fit all cars, I had to swap all the pins in the petrol in and petrol out sockets on the LPG ECU, it was monitoring the non pulsed line, hence no petrol injectors found in the software.

sounds good i hope mine goes like this