Recommendations for Merc ML500 (2003 v8). S/wales / London

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simonp
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Recommendations for Merc ML500 (2003 v8). S/wales / London

#1 Post by simonp »

Hi all,
Im looking to get my ML500 converted to autogas. Its a 5l v8 monster and im just wondering if theres any installer recommendations or any particular brand that would be good to go for? Its also a 7 seater so a boot tank is off the menu.

I live in south wales but work in london (heathrow area) so recommendations for either area is good :)

thanks in advance

tommo2009
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Re: Recommendations for Merc ML500 (2003 v8). S/wales / Lond

#2 Post by tommo2009 »

I am based in South Wales, I could do that conversion for you, done a few of them and they run well.

andy evans autogas
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Re: Recommendations for Merc ML500 (2003 v8). S/wales / Lond

#3 Post by andy evans autogas »

just check where the spare wheel is ,being the 7 seater 500 it may not have one some of the 500'shave an extra exhaust box under the boot floor????? so may be a problem for gas tank :( :( :(
why is it you never see the headline PSYCHIC WINS LOTTERY !!!!!!!!

http://www.sstv.org.uk/autogas/index.html
twitter ... @autogasandy .... With lots of conversion photos !!
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simonp
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Re: Recommendations for Merc ML500 (2003 v8). S/wales / Lond

#4 Post by simonp »

Thanks for the replies chaps.

@tommo do you have any recommendations etc? whats your experience? i tried to visit your website but it seems like its not working.

@andy Thanks i certanily will check. I know someone who has the same model of ML and they have dual tanks, one in spare wheel and one underneath the car so would be surprised if its different as its the same facelift W163 model.

tommo2009
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Re: Recommendations for Merc ML500 (2003 v8). S/wales / Lond

#5 Post by tommo2009 »

done a very large number of Mercs, including the V8's. They all convert really well and run very well, I would use the Bigas system on this engine. it is more than capable of running it even under full load conditions

andy evans autogas
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Re: Recommendations for Merc ML500 (2003 v8). S/wales / Lond

#6 Post by andy evans autogas »

one of the last v8 ml's i did was the ml55 that had the spare in the boot standing up so i had to put an upright toroidal in it :( :( :( dont like them .it had an extra exhaust box under the rear where the spare should have been....so have a look under the back....
why is it you never see the headline PSYCHIC WINS LOTTERY !!!!!!!!

http://www.sstv.org.uk/autogas/index.html
twitter ... @autogasandy .... With lots of conversion photos !!
Facebook Andy Evans Autogas

simonp
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Re: Recommendations for Merc ML500 (2003 v8). S/wales / Lond

#7 Post by simonp »

@tommo whats your company name/location/phone etc? Im assuming you are a proper company, certified installer etc?

@andy cheers :) had a look and you are right, the back boot carpet is fixed. However, looked under there car and sure enough there is huge gaping hole underneath where the spare wheel should be (little did i know that the spare wheel is actually missing). Not sure how a tank would mount as theres only a 'U' shaped bar to hold the spare wheel up, but theres definately plenty of space. Its only a single exhaust thankfully (albeit one i could probably fit my arm down)

Tubbs
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Re: Recommendations for Merc ML500 (2003 v8). S/wales / Lond

#8 Post by Tubbs »

70 litre cylinder then.

simonp
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Re: Recommendations for Merc ML500 (2003 v8). S/wales / Lond

#9 Post by simonp »

that should do nicely :)

has anyone had any experience of (or feedback on) MintLPG in newport or fairwater garages/cardiff autogas? they are the only two listed on the LPGA's website (drivelpg.co.uk) in my area. Mint looked pretty good but im worried they say conversion only takes one day and they only seem to do one system (romano).. ive read that three days should be the norm for anon rushed job?

Ive also been quoted by profess, tough i have seen some negative comments on here about them. is that just bad apples or is there really a problem there?

rossko
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Re: Recommendations for Merc ML500 (2003 v8). S/wales / Lond

#10 Post by rossko »

simonp wrote:and they only seem to do one system (romano)
Why would that be a problem, how many do you want?
We offer a choice, but would not fit the cheapo for an ML500. This isn't a Ford Mundano jobbie.
I think Mint offer own-brand, as well as Romano.
www.blazegas.com

simonp
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Re: Recommendations for Merc ML500 (2003 v8). S/wales / Lond

#11 Post by simonp »

rossko wrote:
simonp wrote:and they only seem to do one system (romano)
Why would that be a problem, how many do you want?
No problem at all tbh, as long as it does the job correctly. I think i was more angling that to ask if that particular brand was the cheaper option/should be avoided/works great etc. Merc engines are pricey to fix and i dont have the time to be stripping engines in my old age hehe

tommo2009
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Re: Recommendations for Merc ML500 (2003 v8). S/wales / Lond

#12 Post by tommo2009 »

I am a proffessional installler, been doing it for a fair few number of years now, Fully certified to fit 9 different systems, But am I UKLPG approved, the answer to that is no, I was once, but withdrew my memebership and will never be part of it again.

I am based in Monmouth

Your car would take me 3 days, and as Tubbs said a 70L cylinder fits nicely under the rear floor.

Cost would be £1600 using Bigas

Could also do it with the EMER system using Valtek 34 injectors, Vap rated to 400hp at a cost of £1400

Gilbertd
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Re: Recommendations for Merc ML500 (2003 v8). S/wales / Lond

#13 Post by Gilbertd »

There have been negative comments about Profess, Mint and anyone else who claims to be able to do a conversion in a day. If you were installing the same kit in the same vehicle day in and day out, it should be possible. To start with you'd have a saved setup that you could just programme the controller with and away you go. But that isn't the case, it's different vehicles, different layouts, different requirements and, as a professional engineer (but not an LPG installer) I do not consider it possible for anyone, no matter how many people they have getting in each others way to work on it, can properly install and set up a system in a day.

Getting the job done properly by someone that will take care of your expensive car is more important than whether or not they have paid their subs to UKLPG and price for that matter. If your insurers require the car to be added to the register, then you can always take it to a member to be inspected. OK, it's additional cost but not that much in the grand scheme of things.
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97 Range Rover 4.0SE, multipoint, sold
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sijones
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Re: Recommendations for Merc ML500 (2003 v8). S/wales / Lond

#14 Post by sijones »

Just in support of Tommo, and the others who ain't UKLPG registered, don't worry about getting it done by them, there is no legal requirement, and for some reason some insurance companies are insisting on certs but there is still a lot that are not asking for them.

As Gilbert said, you can always get someone to cert it afterwards, I believe profess charge extra for the cert but don't actually tell you that it won't be certified upfront.

In your situation with that car, i'd avoid any one day installs, trust me, if you know how much effort to install and then getting the map right, takes time, no matter how many systems you have done, every car is different.

EDIT: Am a DIY'er like Gilbert, so I have no interest in supporting anyone, I have an independent view...!

Gilbertd
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Re: Recommendations for Merc ML500 (2003 v8). S/wales / Lond

#15 Post by Gilbertd »

As a further interesting fact. If you want to change your V5 to show the change of fuel type (and get you tenner discount on your road tax), DVLA require the car to be on the register, OR see a copy of the invoice from the installer, OR see the invoice from the LPG equipment supplier you bought your kit from. I found this out when I tried to change one of my cars using a safety inspection certificate issued by a UKLPG member and found they wouldn't accept it as they hadn't actually installed it. Seemed odd that they wouldn't accept a certificate from someone that had inspected an LPG system as proof that the fuel type had been changed to LPG.......
96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
93 Range Rover 4.2LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
97 Range Rover 4.0SE, multipoint, sold
98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, AEB Leo, daily motor
96 Range Rover 4.6HSE Ascot, AEB Leo, my spare


Proud member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

andy evans autogas
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Re: Recommendations for Merc ML500 (2003 v8). S/wales / Lond

#16 Post by andy evans autogas »

simonp wrote:that should do nicely :)

has anyone had any experience of (or feedback on) MintLPG in newport or fairwater garages/cardiff autogas? they are the only two listed on the LPGA's website (drivelpg.co.uk) in my area. Mint looked pretty good but im worried they say conversion only takes one day and they only seem to do one system (romano).. ive read that three days should be the norm for anon rushed job?

Ive also been quoted by profess, tough i have seen some negative comments on here about them. is that just bad apples or is there really a problem there?
the best advice i can give you is take your time in choosing the company to carry out your conversion .talk to customers on a face to face basis an look at their install, not just cyber ones or over the phone ,you dont know who your talking to as someone mentioned earlier its not just a 4 cyl 100 hp job make sure the system they fit wont switch back to petrol for any other reason than pushing the button or running out of gas also if they have to use the petrol addition function then the system just isnt up to the job no matter what the installer tells you.....its's not a £500 car. do the job once ..do it right ...this next link is just from personal experience.....http://www.lpgforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php ... =guess+who
why is it you never see the headline PSYCHIC WINS LOTTERY !!!!!!!!

http://www.sstv.org.uk/autogas/index.html
twitter ... @autogasandy .... With lots of conversion photos !!
Facebook Andy Evans Autogas

Tubbs
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Re: Recommendations for Merc ML500 (2003 v8). S/wales / Lond

#17 Post by Tubbs »

As far as Mint go. The owner, Edward Davies has been in the industry a very long time and has done many conversions, training and they are also an equipment supplier to many installers in the uk. So i would say if anyone was capable of doing an install to a good standard in a day, it may well be them.
However i havent seen any of their work so i can really comment.
Fairwater garage, well i have seen a bit of work from them. The one customer was a bit awkward. However he had been fobbed off by them all the way through the 24 month warranty period and then told that the system was out of warranty. So maybe he had a right to be somewhat cautious. I did however solve the problem and charge a reasonable rate. So he was happy in the end.
The other install i saw required a bit of rectification and again had a running issue. But i cant say if it had been round every gas converter and his dog before it got to me. The lady said that she had been to a few other companies before she found me. But they fairwater where not interested in touching it after the warranty period was over. But the system still had plenty of life in it. The general problem with ignition issues was the culprit. So again i couldnt say its any kind of represantation.

andy evans autogas
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Re: Recommendations for Merc ML500 (2003 v8). S/wales / Lond

#18 Post by andy evans autogas »

sorry if i spoke out of turn then but the only reason i mentioned them was that the car they had come to see me to promote their business in was an ML500 that had a romano system fitted to it very badly.I don't know of the other company mentioned . don't forget cheap and good don't always go together .but neither does being ripped off for something that wont run it properly .....again take your time and talk to real customers ......good luck........
why is it you never see the headline PSYCHIC WINS LOTTERY !!!!!!!!

http://www.sstv.org.uk/autogas/index.html
twitter ... @autogasandy .... With lots of conversion photos !!
Facebook Andy Evans Autogas

zafira4ever
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Re: Recommendations for Merc ML500 (2003 v8). S/wales / Lond

#19 Post by zafira4ever »

What's the mileage? If you need the trip computer on gas, you need to fit a fuel gauge emulator as well. Can your garage do it? Is it in the conversion price?
Are you willing to change insurance company if one is cheaper or better stay in status quo?
Does your insurance company insist on UKLPG cert?
If they do, can the garage provide drivelpg registration? Is that in the price or how much?
Where do you want your filler fitted? Some converter insist on fitting in the metal only because they don't do with reinforcement in the bumper or they charge you extra.
As long as you do not have DPI engine or turbo the brand does not matter too much. It is like saying Toyota is more reliable than a Merc ... but my previous w140 had done 340k.
If you convert, convert it with locals where you live. Why? Because you will need to tweak the ECU after running it uphills, highways, traffic jam etc. Which is never available in a garage for hundreds of miles long, does not matter if they do it in 1 day or 1 week. Unless you have a self adjusting system installed. Ask your garage if they can fit one like this in case you convert further. I had Romano system installed years ago and now I have Stag. I was happy with both. The job quality depends on the experience mainly.
A friend converted here in Kent an 05 RR with a garage that has RR warranty, UKLPG and the engine blown up a month after. No one knows why but he had problems with dripping coolant. I had mine with profess done and had trips in France with an avg 90 mph with no problems so far. You can find more complains (if they are all true) on profess because they convert daily six cars, which involves proportionally the same complains as anyone else has got with weekly 1 conversion. profess, mint, lpg leeds converts in one day and you need to go back before reaching 1000 miles for a revision again. I have done mine by phoning up Collin and it was a piece of cake for me, maybe for you, using the computer will be harder. You have better to get there in person and ask to show in place the things. Make a list of your questions and ask them each.
I could have for an additional £60 a UKLPG certified test but swift did not ask for anything.
I was with direct line but after conversion swift (elephant) was cheaper, so that I changed insurance company as well.
I would rather go for a conversion by GO-LPG knowing, that they had issues, than someone unknown from the bush stating they are lpg engineers, just because GO-LPG is in business since 30 years.
People are not queuing at the fish n chips shop because they are cheaper, but because they are fresher and have more experience.

tommo2009
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Re: Recommendations for Merc ML500 (2003 v8). S/wales / Lond

#20 Post by tommo2009 »

zafira4ever wrote:What's the mileage? If you need the trip computer on gas, you need to fit a fuel gauge emulator as well. Can your garage do it? Is it in the conversion price?
Are you willing to change insurance company if one is cheaper or better stay in status quo?
Does your insurance company insist on UKLPG cert?
If they do, can the garage provide drivelpg registration? Is that in the price or how much?
Where do you want your filler fitted? Some converter insist on fitting in the metal only because they don't do with reinforcement in the bumper or they charge you extra.
As long as you do not have DPI engine or turbo the brand does not matter too much. It is like saying Toyota is more reliable than a Merc ... but my previous w140 had done 340k.
If you convert, convert it with locals where you live. Why? Because you will need to tweak the ECU after running it uphills, highways, traffic jam etc. Which is never available in a garage for hundreds of miles long, does not matter if they do it in 1 day or 1 week. Unless you have a self adjusting system installed. Ask your garage if they can fit one like this in case you convert further. I had Romano system installed years ago and now I have Stag. I was happy with both. The job quality depends on the experience mainly.
A friend converted here in Kent an 05 RR with a garage that has RR warranty, UKLPG and the engine blown up a month after. No one knows why but he had problems with dripping coolant. I had mine with profess done and had trips in France with an avg 90 mph with no problems so far. You can find more complains (if they are all true) on profess because they convert daily six cars, which involves proportionally the same complains as anyone else has got with weekly 1 conversion. profess, mint, lpg leeds converts in one day and you need to go back before reaching 1000 miles for a revision again. I have done mine by phoning up Collin and it was a piece of cake for me, maybe for you, using the computer will be harder. You have better to get there in person and ask to show in place the things. Make a list of your questions and ask them each.
I could have for an additional £60 a UKLPG certified test but swift did not ask for anything.
I was with direct line but after conversion swift (elephant) was cheaper, so that I changed insurance company as well.
I would rather go for a conversion by GO-LPG knowing, that they had issues, than someone unknown from the bush stating they are lpg engineers, just because GO-LPG is in business since 30 years.
People are not queuing at the fish n chips shop because they are cheaper, but because they are fresher and have more experience.
There is some rather dubious information here, an emulater is not needed so the fuel computer runs correctly, one can be fitted so that it resets the fuel gauge as the one on the ML is electronic and will continue to go down even when on LPG.
The filler location is up to the customer, an installer will recommend certain locations and agree upon one with the customer. If it is a done in a day conversion then the time constraints may not allow to have the filler fitted in certain places because there is extra work involved.
The vehicle does not have to be on the UKLPG register, some insurance companies will be OK with a certificate of conformity provided by a non registerd installer, some won't, it is up to the customer to check what their insurance requires.

Not sure what a DPI engine is, but it makes no difference if it is normally aspirated or forced induction on the type of system fitted, as all modern injection ssytems will run just fine. As has been said before the system must be up to the job and capable of supplying enough LPG under high demand.

To be honest, the mercs take to LPG very well. The ML500 although is a large displacement is not that demanding as it is only 292 BHP which is only 36.5 horsepower per cylinder. almost all systems available today will run this without any issues.

The two sytems I mentioned have Vapourisers rated at 390hp and 400hp so are more than capable.
I would recommend using an installer local to yourself. You have two options for that as you have mentioned. either locally to your home or in London. My number is 01600 714599 if you wish to talk to me, but I would recommend talking to or even visting the garges to see what they have converted. See if they will put you in touch with previous customers so you can get a good idea of the service they provide and if they think they got good value for their money.

Done in a day conversion are all well and good, but they will fit items like fillers switched and any other ancillaries associated with the system in the easiest most accessible place, this does not always make for a neat install.
This link will give you an idea of the work some of the installers on here have done, none of them are done in a day experts!!
http://www.lpgforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=10846

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