Advice please

[Dai Fish]

Thanks for the reply guys

The coil is def different I checked on the owners site and when you look at it you can see the rubber seal on the top is smaller, and when you then look at the hole at the top of the plug tube it is smaller, the coils drop into the plug hole all the way down no resistance on 5 cyl but if you put one of the other coils into number six you have to clamp it down with the little bolts that hold them in place, drop right one in drops perfect like the others, it also has a different part number, as I said there is no difference with my 2000 year one but there is on the 53 plate, very strange but true lol.

Will have a word and see if they will put the settings back though knowing them I will have to pay for the nozzles myself, how much should I be looking to pay for a set of 6 nozzles for the Valtek injectors.

Many thanks again

Dai

[sijones]

Will have a word and see if they will put the settings back though knowing them I will have to pay for the nozzles myself, how much should I be looking to pay for a set of 6 nozzles for the Valtek injectors.

I got a spare set off ebay think £2.50 each, depends which type you have but noticed type 34 are currently on ebay for £1.99.

[Dai Fish]

They are the red top Valtek

Many thanks

Dai

[rossko]

Metal rail and plastic rail "red top Valtek" have different nozzle arrangements.

[Dai Fish]

They are Plastic rail red top's

Many thanks

Dai

[Dai Fish]

Hi again, I have now got myself some new nozzles and drilled them out to 2.5 in readiness to put the settings back to how they were before, I have two questions first reducing the vap pressure is it done via the software on the laptop or is there a manual adjustment on the vap itself if this is the case can you point me in the direction of where on the zavoli s vap it is and which way it should be turned to reduce the pressure from the 1.7bar it is now back to the 1.4bar that I have been advised it should be.

My second question is today I plugged the laptop into the lpg ecu when I clicked on to the program for the stag page as it was connecting a box popped up saying that the lamda was not connected and should be connected for a better calibration when I checked the tick box for the lamda was in the not connected bit and yet the map screen is clearly showing figures in the relevant lamda area of the readout, seems odd that is says it's not connected in one place and shows figures in another or am I missing something.

Many thanks

Dai

[hardcorepit80]

My second question is today I plugged the laptop into the lpg ecu when I clicked on to the program for the stag page as it was connecting a box popped up saying that the lamda was not connected and should be connected for a better calibration when I checked the tick box for the lamda was in the not connected bit and yet the map screen is clearly showing figures in the relevant lamda area of the readout, seems odd that is says it's not connected in one place and shows figures in another or am I missing something.

It will show some figures but that wont make any difference,lambda is needed when you want to tune it up(with ISA on)

there was still a problem at high rev's

With lambda connected should be able to see in program what happens, high revs=lambda rich.

he pressure from the 1.7bar it is now back to the 1.4bar that I have been advised it should be.

In my opinion even 1.4 is too much for valteks...

reducing the vap pressure is it done via the software on the laptop or is there a manual adjustment on the vap

It is manual adjustment on vap., usually alen bolt screw.Screw in or out and observe value in software.

when I had started the car that morning (very cold) as soon as it changed over to gas it was missing like a pig

temperature correction not done...

Clearly there are lots of issues which leads me to conclusion that installation is not set up properly, but with a bit of work I see no reason why it shouldn't work.
Regards.

[Dai Fish]

Right I have changed the nozzles back to 2.5 and reduced the pressure down to 1.4bar and done a re-calibration and run it for a couple of tank fulls of gas and it seems to be running ok but I think I need some help with the fine tuning etc, this is what I am seeing when I connect the laptop, as I said in my previous post it was showing no Lambda connected so out of the choice in the drop down I have chosen the Voltage Inverted 0 means rich is this correct? it is then asking me to set the Lambda threshold or re calibrate, I have done the calibrate but it is still asking for the Lambda threshold what should this be?

the display on the laptop when running at idle is reading

pressure 1.4 bar
Map 0.26
Petrol inj 2.4ms Gas inj 4.3ms
Gas temp 53
Red temp 95
Lambda 1 0.35 Lambda2 0.35

The map is showing the curve of the gas as running above the curve of the petrol

The fuel trims are reading on Petrol as SFT 1.6 LFT 14.1 and on gas SFT 2.3 LFT 21.9
The Lambda readings are all over the place bouncing between lows of .085 and highs of.765 on petrol and lows of .095 and highs of .860 on gas, both times I allowed the car to idle for about 10 mins on each fuel before taking the readings.

Please can you advise me on how to proceed form here

many thanks again for all the time and effort you have all put into helping me to sort this out.

Dai

[tommo2009]

Your Lambda's are working correctly from the values you have given, I would say it needs a little more gas just to bring the fuel trims down a touch.

[rossko]

it was showing no Lambda connected

If the gas system hasn't been physically wired to the car's lambda sensors, no amount of software menu tweaking will connect them. No connection to the gas is needed for normal working (so they are often just not connected) they are there for the petrol systems use.

The fuel trims are reading on Petrol as SFT 1.6 LFT 14.1 and on gas SFT 2.3 LFT 21.9

As tommo says, you need a bit more gas to get those LTFT more in line between fuels.

The Lambda readings are all over the place bouncing between lows of .085 and highs of.765

That is good news, that is how they are supposed to work.

[Dai Fish]

Many thanks for getting back to me, how do I go about giving it a little more gas, will I need to re calibrate it again after any adjustments have been made.

Many thanks

Dai

[Gilbertd]

Two choices, turn the gas pressure up a touch or enlarge the nozzles slightly. Turning the gas pressure up is easier as you can turn it back down again if it has an adverse affect on something else.

[tommo2009]

don't know much about the stag software, but there must be a way of increasing the gas in the software. There is in all other applications bigas, emer, easyjet, egas etc

[hardcorepit80]

done a re-calibration and run it for a couple of tank fulls of gas and it seems to be running ok but I think I need some help with the fine tuning etc,

Sounds like You didn't do multiplier tuning on the road! READ STAG MANUAL!!!!

asking me to set the Lambda threshold or re calibrate

if it's 4 wire sensor then threshold 0.5

The map is showing the curve of the gas as running above the curve of the petrol

it means too rich.

I have chosen the Voltage Inverted 0 means rich is this correct

chose -Voltage(0 means lean)

Two choices, turn the gas pressure up a touch or enlarge the nozzles slightly. Turning the gas pressure up is easier as you can turn it back down again if it has an adverse affect on something else.

it only needs proper tuning

It is very difficult to advise someone with stag system without seeing screens of settings tab(gas and petrol) and maps.
Please post some !!!

[mat_fenwick]

Sounds like You didn't do multiplier tuning on the road! READ STAG MANUAL!!!!

To be fair to the OP he seems to have been left in this mess by an installer, although whether they've refused to have it back in for rectification or he's given up we don't yet know.

[hardcorepit80]

To be fair to the OP he seems to have been left in this mess by an installer, although whether they've refused to have it back in for rectification or he's given up we don't yet know.

O.K fair enough, what I'm trying to do is point in the right direction which is Stag manual.

This is step by step set-up and tuning of Stag system(300+,Premium,Stag4) based on Satg manual.
This is the way I'm doing and it works o.k form me.
Hope it'll be helpful

First of all, make sure your installation is spot on:
-right injectors
-right nozzle size
-same length of pipes between injectors and manifold
-no leaks in air intake system
No errors in car ecu (delete with scanner or disconnect battery for 1h and reset ecu)
If you decide to disconnect battery, run a car on petrol for couple of miles to re-teach petrol ecu.

1. Auto-calibration.
Before auto-calibration make sure engine is hot.Switch off all lights, A/C and do not move steering wheel while auto-calibration process.Engine should run at idle.
After auto-calibration finishes you can see the multiplier in MAP tab.Multiplier at this point should start between 1.2 and 1.6 and ends on 1. If it's below 1.2 or greater than 1.6 it means there's something wrong with nozzle size/ vap. pressure set.The thing is, to get right nozzles size with vap. pressure between 1.0 -1.2 ,to achieve multiplier as mentioned above.Of course in case of wrong nozzles error massage come up on the end of auto-calibration.Manufacturer "injector table size" should be only guide, not "must be".(Does not apply to Keihin or Hana2000 injectors.)
Multiplier high=nozzles too small.
Multiplier low= nozzles too big.

2.Collection of the petrol injection map (petrol map)

The most important thing while collecting maps (LPG and Petrol) is to do it in the same conditions!
I always do it on the same route,drive on petrol,collect map and do exactly the same route when switch to LPG.

Switch over to petrol and drive for at least 5 miles to collect petrol map.I usually divide that in 2 stages:
-driving with different loads and speeds(foot in the floor on all gears)
-driving calm (OAP style )
After finish, in MAP tab, you will see blue line which is graphic picture of petrol inj. times running on petrol

3.Collection of the petrol injection map running on petrol (LPG map)

Switch over to LPG and do exactly the same as in step 2.
After finish,in MAP tab, you will see green line which is graphic picture of petrol inj. times running on LPG.
In perfect situation both should match... which is impossible...

4.Checking if maps match(deflection)
In Deflection tab you can see deviation graph.If deviation fits within -10% to +10% the controller is programmed properly.
That what manual says, but you can always do better ! (mine deviation fits between -3% and +3%)

5.Correcting maps.
At this point you've got 2 different maps which probably does not match.
You need to adjust multiplier by moving up or down yellow dots located on multiplier line.By doing that, you are moving (adding or lowering gas amount) green LPG map.You can add some more dots by pressing right pad key(or mouse) on multiplier line or delete them by click on dot and press Delete key.Usually I put dots where I need to adjust multiplier.
Now go on the road(same route) this time there's no need to put your foot down, just drive like you drive everyday.It is better and much safer to do with help(someone driving and you do the tuning or vice versa)
Manual says to observe petrol inj. times and change yellow points but in my opinion you can do it just by observing green and blue line.Move up or down dots to match lines from the beginning to the end.Perfect match means, you should see one thin line.

That's it.
There's also ISA2 which is auto-adaptation option in Stag300 ISA2 and Premium but there are many different opinion about it...
in some cars works good in some cars makes problems. Basically it is autocorrection(fine tuning) to correction we've just done(you can see it in "RPM CORRECTION" tab) I ran a car for couple of days with isa2 on and then switched it off.
Some people use this option for tuning,not correcting maps on the road first,and then all the problems starts....

Hope it will help.

[Dai Fish]

Many many hanks for the reply's, the help you guys give really does amaze me, As for the installer I have given up and really don't want to take the car back, I have many reasons which I don't wish to go into in to much detail at the min. I don't have a manual but will follow the instructions given and hopefully get back to you with a positive outcome.

Many thanks again

Dai

[Dai Fish]

Right done an auto cal and it has come up with a fault, saying gas injectors full open check lambda sensor at full engine load.

My lap top then crashed before I could do anything else, so the maps that I had have gone, there was no EML or anything and according to my OBD tester the lambda sensors are working fine.

I guess I have to do an auto cal again.

Many thanks

Dai

[hardcorepit80]

Right done an auto cal and it has come up with a fault, saying gas injectors full open check lambda sensor at full engine load.

If lambda stay at "rich" with engine full load, you can ignore that message.(otherwise your injectors are not good enough for your engine or nozzles too small)
What was you multiplier after auto-calibration? Did it start between 1.2 and 1.6?

I guess I have to do an auto cal again.

No need to do auto-calibration again.All setting and maps should be there.
Did you finish points 2. and 3. from my "manual" above?

Please post some screens from program, settings and multiplier.
Open program acgas synchro> press "print scr" on your keyboard> open "Paint" program on you laptop> press ctrl+v >and save.