Gas getting scarcer

[SteveMJ]

I queried on this forum before as to why there is no source of LPG in mid-Hertfordshire.

When I got my car converted in 2009, it was in Hertford by a converter who also could supply LPG, by early 2010 they had stopped supplying due to problems with Calor (if I recall corectly).

Tesco in Hatfield then also supplied, so not too much of a problem, they stopped soon after.

That only left another LPG converter in Nup End, Coditcote, who are now thinking of giving it up too. I think they make too little and get poor support from Calor.

What is it that makes it not economical to sell LPG, is there a hidden agenda I am missing?

Its damn frustrating that I cannot readily fill up. Any thoughts why there is such problems?

Steve

[Gilbertd]

Asking on here probably won't get much of an answer, why not contact those places that no longer sell LPG and ask them why they have stopped doing it?

[jeepman]

I get my LPG at the Shell Station on the A1 at Stirling Corner, nr Borehamwood, I think it was 75.9p per Litre, This Petrol Station was refitted in May/June this year, 2011, other than this Petrol Station there is Sainsbury's at London Colney, Just off the M25 at Junc 22, I think they were .79p litre though, good luck.

[lpg-cars]

The main problem with selling gas is that the only way to sell it in reasonable quantities is to be the cheapest in the area.

This drives down the margin and so it soons becomes unprofitable for all except the guy selling at the lowest price and very large quantities.

So you are selling gas at 6p per litre margin, average customer spends £30 per fill so that is 42 litres x 6p = £2.52 take out 2% for card fee leaves you with £1.92 per customer. Then you have to take out the vat on the profit, leaving a huge fortune of £1.60 per car. If you get 100 cars a week filling up you have made £160.00 does this cover the manpower costs, electric, rent, rates, bank charges, insurance etc?

Most independents do not have automated digital meters so it usually involves a members of staff attending to you while you fill up. Why don't they have the digital controllers and self service? Because they are all designed to run 16 pumps on a forecourt and cost £20,000 plus. Petrol forecourts have thousands of cars a week, gas stations do not.

Professional LPG pumps cost over £1000, Meters start at £1,500, Digital dispensers start at £5,000 with the main suppliers wanting £8-10,000. If a customer drives off with the hose attached, it will cost around £450 to replace them.
It cost over £200 and it took 2 weeks just to get the receipt printer working again on our old controller.

When something breaks down is there enough money in the gas sales to justify spending these amounts?

An LPG specialist would probably say yes because he is supporting his conversion customers, an accountant would say no way.

So, how do you fix the problem Put the prices up so you actually make some profit.
But then half your customers drive 5 miles, que up for half an hour, and fill up there because they are 2p a litre cheaper.

So now you only get 50 cars a week filling and haven't gained anything.
Eventually all the stations shut down or stop selling gas and the last one puts up the prices to actually make a profit but all the customers moan because the gas is too dear, it's not worth converting, you only save 35% instead of 40%

Want to keep running on gas?
You need to support ALL of the stations not just the cheapest. If you don't the number of stations will diminish, people will stop converting because you can't get the gas easily and prices will go up. You will then all have to drive diesels or wait 10 years for an affordable and practical electric car.

[acorn2]

I have an account with Cuntrywide and there are two places that I can fill up near where I live ( I should add that they give you a big list of places that you can use) both of them about 5 miles in opposite directions I just put in the plastic coded key and tap in my pin and fill up them then it is on a DD thing with my bank and I get an invoice one a month.

I think the problem with lpg is that the cars that they are making now are getting lighter with all of the plastic that they use the engines with all of the computer gizmos use less and less petrol/diesel.

so why spend out £2000 to have a conversion done then you have the problem of finding someone to fix it if it goes wrong then you have to find a place to fill it up if you are lucky it will only be five miles away.

Then you have to wait ages for it to fill up while other people are coming and filling with petrol and going while you are still standing waiting for it to fill up if you want or have need of something with a big 3ltr or 6ltr engine go ahead and have lpg but if a 2ltr or smaller is big enough for your needs then I would not bother with it.

[Sir Henry]

Of the only 3 places that sell LPG in Rotherham, 2 of them are Morrisons and the other is a limousine hire place who only has it because most of his limos run on gas. Even then he's about 15P/litre dearer than Morrisons so the 5 extra miles I have to travel is more than made up for by the savings. If I go farther afield - into Sheffield or Doncaster - prices rise the former and drop in the latter (Morrisons again), but at 11mpg in The Old Girl even a tankful (80 litres) ends up costing more due to the fuel used to get there & back.

[matthewm1965]

I suppose that I should consider myself very lucky then. On my daily commute to work, I pass 3 filling stations selling LPG and a 4th if I take a slight detour.
They tend to alternate between who is the cheapest on a monthly basis, so I spread my business between them all, which at 80 litres a week isn't a great deal, but hopefully they will all keep selling it.

Matt

[SteveMJ]

Thank you all for your comments, I didn't expect any specific answers.

lpg-cars; your comprehensive reply was most insightful, I did not have an understanding of the economics as not being in this business - thank you for that. As a guess I would have thought the area I live in (mid-Hertfordshire) would encompass a lot of potential customers, it is a densly populated area with the A1M running through, so would potentially be a viable outlet. I accept that may be wishful thinking

jeepman; I occasionally visit the station at Stirling corner, especially when I used to visit my Mum in Hendon, she's no longer with so I go that way less often. My Mrs loves it when she gets a visit to Sainsbury's at London Colney. It usually works out a long expensive trip though - much more than the gas!

acorn2; no such facility as Countrywide near here - at least that I am aware of. Something like that would be good I would even like to put a small tank in the garden. As I have a 6.2L car (VXR8) I find that my little 48L capacity tank gives me a gas range of only about 180 miles, less if there is a lot of urban driving.

Gilbertd; I did indirectly ask Hertsautogas and I got the impression (so this may be unfair) that Calor were not being supportive, I think that is why the conversion garaage in Hertford stopped selling LPG too. That comes back to my original post - why is there a seemingly lack of support by Calor for its retails outlets? Is it not in their interest to shift as much LPG as possible?

Again thank you all for the very positive feedback. Steve