And......................................we're back

[Gilbertd]

The mystery motor is a 1983 Matra Murena 2.2 that I've owned since 1985 and wouldn't get rid of under any circumstances.

I like the idea of an Mi16 in a 205 though, sounds entertaining. These kids these days with their tarted up Saxos and the like, don't know how to do it properly. Leave it bog standard outside but shoehorn the biggest motor that will fit under the bonnet. Best one I managed was a 2.9i Cologne V6 into a 105E Anglia, that was errm, interesting. It certainly taught you what understeer meant.

Damian. No idea how you would use LPG to run a filtration pump unless you used it to generate steam and had a steam powered pump, but you can use it to run the heater. My friend over there was using wood to heat a large outdoor Jacuzzi but the principle would be the same. His pool is heated by solar panels but as the Jacuzzi needed to be hotter and was predominately used at night, that wasn't feasible. So he would light a bonfire under the heat exchanger from an old central heating boiler (5 Euros from his local Emmaus), used a swimming pool pump to circulate the water and a thermostatic valve from the same boiler to regulate the temperature. Worked extremely well too. Now you could use LPG instead of wood I'm sure.

[Gilbertd]

Anyway, has anyone complained? It is in the General Discussion topic and it is pretty general.....

[admin]

Not at all - I think it is rather amusing to watch how a thread can be totally lost and changed :0)

[admin]

I dont suppose you know anyone around Confolens ?

Damian

[Gilbertd]

My cousin and family live in a village just north of Bergerac so is within 100 miles or so. He's pretty handy at just about everything in the building trade and his wife is an estate agent so a useful couple to know. The rest of my contacts over there are in Nice and Antibes so right down on the south coast.

[admin]

Shame that as it would have been really handy as we have just decided to buy around Confolens, in fact offer accepted today so now to sort out the upgrade to the Fosse :0( Carp job but someones got to do it....

[Gilbertd]

Ahh, the dreaded fosse septique. When my mate bought his place he had a two week overlap between getting the keys and having to move out of their previous house. That gave 2 weeks to get a 600 year old stone farmhouse, 630m above sea level in the mountains behind Nice that had never been modernised and had stood empty for 6 years into a state where it was habitable. He could do the plumbing, I could do the wiring but the fosse was entrusted to local builders. They quoted a fixed price and assured him the job would be finished before he moved in. What they didn't realise was that under a few inches of topsoil, it was solid rock! The last couple of days saw a gang of them sweating profusely in the 35+ degree heat (it was July) so we had something to attach the drainage pipes from the toilets to rather than have to use the two footprints and a hole that was all that was there previously.

If you need to do any wiring, the French regs are completely different to ours but quite simple once you get your head round it. I've got it all to do again as he's just sold this place and the new one he's moving to in a couple of months needs rewiring. What a way to spend a holiday....

[SimonHobson]

Any advice while talking France about using LPG to power a Swimming Pool heater and filtration pump..

How much heat do you need ?
One option that comes to mind is to run a small engine and generator. The generator powers the pump, and you use a heat exchanger to heat the pool from both the engine coolant and exhaust. Since the load probably isn't that high, add some electric heaters that will also load up the engine - or just use a regular gas fired boiler.
Of course, once you have the genny, then that gives you power for everything else - unless you already have power in which case you've got power to run the pump and boiler electrics and just need the gas fired boiler.

The mystery motor is a 1983 Matra Murena

Actually I'm fairly certain I've heard that name before (definitely heard of Matra) - but beyond that, yeah I know nothing about it

Hmm, now I look it up, I can see why you don't want to part with it - nice lines. And I see that they built the Renault Espace, which is probably where I;d heard the name before.

[mat_fenwick]

The mystery motor is a 1983 Matra Murena 2.2 that I've owned since 1985 and wouldn't get rid of under any circumstances.

Without Googling it, is that the one that seats three abreast? I partially remember something in Practical Classics some years back.

The 205 is fun, but not a particularly relaxing drive. Nowadays I find it fun just pootling along in the van...must be getting old.

[Gilbertd]

Matra are a huge French owned company into all sorts of things and formed Matra Automobile to help out Rene Bonnet (the B from DB Panhard fame). They entered motor racing in the late '60's giving Jackie Stewart his first F1 world championship. In the early '70's they moved over to Endurance racing and won Le Mans 3 years in a row. Their Le Mans cars were sponsored by Simca and as a result were asked to design and build a sports car using as many bits from the Simca parts bin as possible. The original 3 abreast was the Bagheera which handles superbly but suffered from a lack of power due to using the engine from what was known over here as the Chrysler Alpine (originally a 1296cc and then a 1442cc) only mounted behind the seats to give a mid-engined layout. Unfortunately, it also rusts like a 1970's Simca!

The Murena was the replacement with a 2.2 engine which was a bored and stroked version of the Chrysler 180/2litre unit mated to a Citroen CX gearbox and diff, with a fully hot dipped galvanised chassis and glass fibre outer panels. They also built the Matra Simca Rancho which was the first production 7 seater. Subsequently they designed a prototype replacement which they offered to Talbot (as it had by then become) but they didn't consider it would sell so it was shelved. Until Renault saw it and it went into production as the Espace. In fact, up until the current Espace (which is now made by Renault) all previous versions were built by Matra with the manufacturers name on the VIN plate as Matra Automobile SA even though the exterior badges said it was a Renault. The tie with Renault saw the end of the Matra sports cars as they were outselling Renault's own Alpine A310 by a considerable margin.

and here it is....

Murena.jpg (32.22 KiB) Viewed 5432 times

Yes, I used to run the owners club.

[Dave_G]

I remember the bagheera, quite liked them myself

[ghmahama]

[quote="Gilbertd"

Good run there and back though. I can testify that a 4.4 litre Range Rover Sport does 15mpg at a steady 85-90mph whereas a 5.5 litre SL55 AMG does 20mpg at a steady 100mph!

...and it sounds absolutely glorious when you floor it away from the toll booths......[/quote]


I know this was an old post but do you or did you have your SL55 converted to run on lpg?
I ask because I'm considering getting my 5.5ltr S55 converted and was wondering if anyone had done this engine and with what results.

[Gilbertd]

It's not as old as some of the ones that get resurrected at times. The SL55 AMG wasn't mine, I was bringing it back to England to be sold. I don't see why it couldn't be converted though, other large capacity V8 engines have been done (numerous Range Rovers, big BMWs and American lumps). You just need to remember that it can't be done on the cheap. You'll need top quality kit that can cope with demand on the occasions when you want it to stretch it's legs.....

[ghmahama]

Thanks for the reply. I've been quoted £2500 +vat since mine is the supercharged engine they have advised the top of the range prins system. I've looked everywhere but can only find proof of the model just befor mine, the one without the supercharger.

Ideally I would question someone who has the same engine as mine who has done it swell. Oh well the search continues.

I'm new to all this LPG stuff but the research I have done leads me to feel that it's a good technology. I wonder why more haven't done it

[john_d]

back ON topic, we're still here

[Gilbertd]

Prins is generally recognised as the best you can get so you're on the right track. As the LPG system tracks the petrol injection, the addition of the supercharger won't make too much difference as long as the LPG system is capable of supplying sufficient fuel at maximum demand.

I too am a definite convert to LPG despite some of the less well informed opinions that some come out with. I was told by a Saab specialist that the valves on my Saab 900 would be shot by the time I had done 10,000 miles. When I pointed out that it had already done over 140,000 miles on LPG and the valves were still the originals, he just shrugged his shoulders and walked off. I was also told by a Land Rover specialist that a Range Rover on gas would continually overheat and ultimately kill the engine. Now the LR V8 can overheat anyway no matter what fuel it is running on but considering the huge numbers of them that have been converted, I don't think many with overheating problems can be down to the gas installation, it's just one of those things that happens. The poor reputation gained by some of the factory fit systems, particularly Vauxhall, is down to a general ignorance of the system and neglect.

These old wives tales have little to do with fact, more an ignorance of the workings of modern LPG systems but it is this that puts a lot of people off. Almost everyone knows of a friend of a friend of a distant relative that once had an LPG car that was nothing but trouble, but you never hear about the ones that work faultlessly for years.

[SimonHobson]

I'm new to all this LPG stuff but the research I have done leads me to feel that it's a good technology. I wonder why more haven't done it

As GilbertD says, there's a lot of OWTs about (Old Wives Tales).

One of my earliest articles what about just this - you can read it here. I could do with updating that since it really only covers mixer systems. I think I actually wrote it somewhat earlier than the date suggests, and back then mixers were more the norm and injection very much high end. That's changed and some of my comments need updating to deal with injection - I was one of many that knew nothing at all about it back then.

[ghmahama]

Interesting articles. Just need to be 100% sure before I go ahead and get mine done. I need to bump into people who have had their cars done.

I pray that mine won't be the horror story that will become enshrined in folk law.

[SimonHobson]

Another consideration that's come to the fore more recently - economics.

Go back to 1990 and earlier vehicles, and apart from valve seat recession (rule of thumb: if it's OK for unleaded, it's OK for gas) and the engine management systems were mostly so basic that you could get away with almost anything. Ie a simple "cooker ring on the inlet", optionally a closed loop controller, and Robert's your mother's brother.

Since then, and especially since around 2000, the management systems have become so sensitive that you need really tight control and only an injection system will do. The extra cost of these puts the conversion price up.

Add in that in many places the cost differential between gas and petrol has eroded, and vehicles are generally getting more efficient, both factors leading to a lower rate of return on a higher investment. Unless (like a few of us here) you can do it (properly) yourself, then the upshot is that it's not financially attractive unless you drive something big and thirsty or you do a lot of miles.

[ghmahama]

Well the car will be doing a lot of miles as it's a chauffeur car, and it certainly is thirsty being a 5.5 v8. So I suppose the main boxes have been ticked.

Although I wouldn't have articulated it so well and so technically I did have a hunch that the complexities of the newer engines and the management systems may have had an impact. Mines a 2003 supercharged version and the mere fact that I haven't seen or heard that many have been done is causing me to postpone.