Mondeo factory fitted - will not switch over

Message

rottathehutlet · #1 Post by **rottathehutlet** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:33 pm

Hi all.
Please excuse me as I am a complete newbie to lpg. I have searched these forums thoroughly and can't find the answer to this;
I have just bought a Mondeo with factory fitted LPG.
It will not switch over to LPG, but otherwise runs perfectly ok.
I have had a look at the donut shaped tank in the boot. It has two knobs that can be turned, which both have arrows saying 'open' and 'closed'. One of them is loose and will not screw into the 'closed' position.
I have no idea what this is or whether this is related to the problem.
I would be grateful of any advice.
Thanks

rossko · #2 Post by **rossko** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:00 pm

You won't find a single answer because there are many possible causes, including in this case part of the kit being removed etc.

What lights do you have on the dashboard?

rottathehutlet · #3 Post by **rottathehutlet** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:06 pm

Hi
Thanks for your reply.
When I press the LPG button to turn it on, the light on it comes on, but there are no other lights.
The guage says it has over half a tank of gas.

rossko · #4 Post by **rossko** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:36 pm

I think if it is a "factory" Necam-Koltec kit it would flash while waiting to change to LPG, or in case of error. Steady light, it's running on gas? Changeover can be imperceptible on a well-sorted system.

More info on N-K systems can be found by looking for Vauxhall "factory" installs, and our resident expert's posts and gallery - pjpj

pjpj · #5 Post by **pjpj** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:40 pm

Hi,

The Ford systems are slightly different in that the LPG ECU is integrated into the main ECU. The result of this is you cannot read the LPG only fault codes using the diagnostics wire. I would imagine this would mean the only codes available will need to be read from the ECU with a code reader.

However, many faults are down to blocked fuel line, either a solenoid not opening or filter blocked or maybe damage to the feed pipe etc.

If you let us know where you are, there may be someone fairly close to you that is happy to work on the Ford Koltec/ Necam systems.

Regards

PJPJ

midnight · #6 Post by **midnight** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:04 am

The car should have an Icom fuel tank fitted in the spare wheel well. What year was the car registerd and is it a MK2 or MK3. The two knobs that you speak of are thumb screws which keep the top cover in place. If you unscrew them and remove the top cover you will see a large rubber o'ring which sit's between the top cover and the tank. This forms a gas tight seal when the top cover is fixed back into position. You can remove this top cover in order to inspect the wiring to the tank. You will also see the solonoid, a fuel gauge and the gas inputs/outputs when the cover is removed.

rottathehutlet · #7 Post by **rottathehutlet** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:43 am

rossko wrote:I think if it is a "factory" Necam-Koltec kit it would flash while waiting to change to LPG, or in case of error. Steady light, it's running on gas? Changeover can be imperceptible on a well-sorted system.

The only reason I know it wasn't running on gas is because during the 90 mile journey home it used all the petrol I put in it.

If you let us know where you are, there may be someone fairly close to you that is happy to work on the Ford Koltec/ Necam systems.

I am in Suffolk

What year was the car registerd and is it a MK2 or MK3

It is a mk2 registered sept 2000

If you unscrew them and remove the top cover you will see a large rubber o'ring which sit's between the top cover and the tank. This forms a gas tight seal when the top cover is fixed back into position

Does this mean that gas could leak out if this isn't able to be screwed back in?

Thanks all!

Gilbertd · #8 Post by **Gilbertd** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:16 pm

rottathehutlet wrote:
If you unscrew them and remove the top cover you will see a large rubber o'ring which sit's between the top cover and the tank. This forms a gas tight seal when the top cover is fixed back into position
Does this mean that gas could leak out if this isn't able to be screwed back in?

No. It is there to prevent gas from coming into the car IF a leak starts. Under this plate is the multivalve, the bit that allows the inlet and outlet pipes, the shut off valve and gas guage sender to connect to the tank itself. On one side it will be open to the atmosphere (on a toroidal wheel well tank, through a hole in the floor) and the other side would be open to the interior of the car if this plate wasn't fitted. The plate is there so that in the unlikely event of a leak, the gas will be vented out under the car and not into the interior.

I've got one car with a toroidal in the spare wheel well and the plate was missing when I got the car (so I sealed the top with gaffer tape, not ideal, but it's gas tight) and my Range Rover has a toroidal standing up inside the back and both sides of that are open to the interior of the car. Almost certainly isn't compliant but I've no idea how it could be sealed without putting the whole thing inside a big box.

rottathehutlet · #9 Post by **rottathehutlet** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:50 pm

No. It is there to prevent gas from coming into the car IF a leak starts

Thanks for that.That sets my mind at rest.
I've decided that as I know nothing about this stuff and it can probably be quite dangerous I will take it into a garage. Anyone know anyone in Suffolk/Essex that could do it?
Thanks

midnight · #10 Post by **midnight** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:14 pm

Hi,
From your answer I assume that it's a 1.8 with a zetec e engine. Just above the astray you should have a push switch. With the ignion on, but without the engine running you need to press this switch so that it light's up. If you now start the car up, it will start on petrol first and then it should swtch over to gas after about 20-30 seconds. On the dash board in front of the clocks on the right handside is the autogas fuel gauge. This gauge should be lit up and indicating that there is lpg fuel in the tank. Just to the left of this fuel level indication there is another led which is in the shape of a gas bottle. This gas bottle indicator will light up when the car switches over to gas. If for some reason it does not light then it is because there is a fault with lpg system. The most common fault with these are the lpg pump which is fitted inside the lpg tank.

rottathehutlet · #11 Post by **rottathehutlet** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:31 pm

Thanks Midnight.
Yes it is a 1.8 vtec. I have had the switch on constantly and the light is on. The LPG fuel guage says it is over half full, but there is no gas bottle lit up on the dash board.
Also, on a few occasions, when starting with the LPG switch on, it has stalled immediately after startup, so then I have to switch it back to petrol and restart it.

midnight · #12 Post by **midnight** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:52 pm

It sounds like you have the Metaron system which was fitted by Tickford. Tickford no longer deal with this systen, but I understand that they will point you in the direction of a couple of installers who will. With the switch above the ashtray lit, switch the ignition on, you should be able to hear a loud click comming from the solonoid. It may be best if you remove the gas tight cover from the top of the lpg tank by unscrewing the two thumb screws first, as you will be able to hear the solonoid click more clearly. You should also hear at the same time the pump motor operating. Do not confuse the sound of the petrol pump motor and the lpg pump motor as they will both operate a the same time. The lpg pump motor should operate for a few seconds and then stop as will the petrol pump motor. Check that the solonoid click's and that the lpg pump motor operate's for a few seconds.

pjpj · #13 Post by **pjpj** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:59 pm

billynoband has replied on this post for a Ford factory fitted system repairer in your area.

my90.co.uk/lpg/viewtopic.php?t=7830&highlight=

But, as midnight says, it might be wise to contact Tickfords and obtain information from them too.

Regards

PJPJ

rottathehutlet · #14 Post by **rottathehutlet** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:13 pm

You should also hear at the same time the pump motor operating

I can't hear a click, but I can hear the pump motor operating. I am pretty sure that's what it is, as the only time I have ever heard that sound before was a few years ago when I had a Nubira that was LPG converted.

PJPJ - thanks for the info about the repairer.

midnight · #15 Post by **midnight** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:38 pm

If there is no click then the solonoid may not be opening. The solonoid opens to allow the gas through. You need to remove the top cover on the lpg tank and check the solonoid and the electrical conections on the solonoid. If the solonoid has had it then it can be replaced. However it may not be the only fault, but you will not know until you confirm that the solonoid is operating correctly.

rottathehutlet · #16 Post by **rottathehutlet** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:52 pm

OK. I will check the solenoid connections. Thanks

midnight · #17 Post by **midnight** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:47 pm

No problem. Let us know how you get on.

rottathehutlet · #18 Post by **rottathehutlet** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:54 pm

I have checked the solenoid connections and all seemed fine. I called an LPG specialist and explained the problem and they reckon the pump has failed.
As I have only just purchased the car I am going to reject it under the Sale of Goods Act.
Thanks everybody for your help. I will be back when I have bought my next LPG vehicle!