Hi,
I am looking to buy a LPG converted 2000-plate Honda CRV or a 2000-plate Subura Outback. Would appreciate some advice before I do.
1. Is it still worthwhile to own a LPG car?
- Heard grants have gone, prices gone up and still numerous problems with LPG system
2. When buying a LPG car what should I look out for?
- Which LPG system to have?
- What is Lube?
- Avoid adaptors?
3. Is there a good LPG trouble-shooter in Bradford?
4. Where is the cheapest LPG in Bradford?
5. Does anyone know of any problems with LPG on the CRV or Outback?
Thks - am looking to buy in Mar!
Newbie
Welcome and I'll do my best. No doubt you'll start quite a discussion.
1. Didn't know there ever were any grants? There is a very small (£10 a year I think) reduction in road tax but only for cars on the sliding scale tax system, so a 2000 would be too old and will be on the fixed rate anyway, gas or not. Prices of gas have gone up, but so has petrol. You'll pay anything from 40p per litre to 65 p per litre for gas dependng on whether you get it from a gas wholesaler tucked away in an industrial estate somewhere or from a mainstream petrol filling station. Gas systems have had to get more complex to cope with more complex engine designs so prices will go up but simple systems for simple engines are still around and if anything have dropped in price. Some systems can give problems but that is usually down to the standard of the installation or a system that isn't suited to the car.
2. Which system is subjective. If you only intend keeping the car for 40 or 50,000 miles a cheaper system will do the job well before things start to wear. If you want a system that will outlast the car, go for a Prins. Lube, or Flashlube is a lubricant injected into the inlet to protect the valves and seats from premature wear. Most European cars don't need it but most Far Eastern cars, particularly Hondas, do. Adapters?? I assume you mean filling adapters. There are some 10mm fillers that need a screw in adapter but they are fairly rare as they break easily. The standard UK fitting is called the Dutch Bayonet and is used in the UK and Holland without using an adapter. A standard UK fitting will have an internal 22mm thread so you can use an adapter to convert it to the Italian Cup filler (used in most of Europe) or the Acme thread (used in Germany).
3. Dunno, too far away for me. Warrington Autogas have a good reputation but how far Warrington is from Bradford I have no idea without looking it up.
4. Dunno again but having a look here http://www.lpgmap.co.uk/map.php and it looks like you've got the usual Shell and BP (expensive), a Morrisons (usually much cheaper) and an independant supplier who will probably be cheaper still.
5. Yes. CRV definitely needs Flashlube or the valve seats will be shot within 10,000 miles. Subarus suffer in much the same way.
1. Didn't know there ever were any grants? There is a very small (£10 a year I think) reduction in road tax but only for cars on the sliding scale tax system, so a 2000 would be too old and will be on the fixed rate anyway, gas or not. Prices of gas have gone up, but so has petrol. You'll pay anything from 40p per litre to 65 p per litre for gas dependng on whether you get it from a gas wholesaler tucked away in an industrial estate somewhere or from a mainstream petrol filling station. Gas systems have had to get more complex to cope with more complex engine designs so prices will go up but simple systems for simple engines are still around and if anything have dropped in price. Some systems can give problems but that is usually down to the standard of the installation or a system that isn't suited to the car.
2. Which system is subjective. If you only intend keeping the car for 40 or 50,000 miles a cheaper system will do the job well before things start to wear. If you want a system that will outlast the car, go for a Prins. Lube, or Flashlube is a lubricant injected into the inlet to protect the valves and seats from premature wear. Most European cars don't need it but most Far Eastern cars, particularly Hondas, do. Adapters?? I assume you mean filling adapters. There are some 10mm fillers that need a screw in adapter but they are fairly rare as they break easily. The standard UK fitting is called the Dutch Bayonet and is used in the UK and Holland without using an adapter. A standard UK fitting will have an internal 22mm thread so you can use an adapter to convert it to the Italian Cup filler (used in most of Europe) or the Acme thread (used in Germany).
3. Dunno, too far away for me. Warrington Autogas have a good reputation but how far Warrington is from Bradford I have no idea without looking it up.
4. Dunno again but having a look here http://www.lpgmap.co.uk/map.php and it looks like you've got the usual Shell and BP (expensive), a Morrisons (usually much cheaper) and an independant supplier who will probably be cheaper still.
5. Yes. CRV definitely needs Flashlube or the valve seats will be shot within 10,000 miles. Subarus suffer in much the same way.
Re: Newbie
Pub talk.chan110 wrote: - Heard grants have gone, prices gone up and still numerous problems with LPG system
Grants are long gone, and were only available on conversions, not on buying a converted car!
Yep, LPG has gone up. Have you noticed petrol prices have a bit as well? The important factor is the actual difference.
From http://www.petrolprices.com/ today
- UL average £1.12
- LPG average £0.61
Some people continue to fit the cheapest systems they can find, using the cheapest installers or DIY. Anything can have problems (ask Toyota), cars without LPG break down, and people tend to only trumpet problems. The majority of LPG users have a fit-n-forget experience, and don't have much to say about that.
A really important question for LPG car ... why are they selling it???chan110 wrote:2. When buying a LPG car what should I look out for?
The second question ... is there an LPGA certificate or equivalent? Your insurers may want to see that.
www.blazegas.com
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SimonHobson
- Intermediate Member
- Posts: 1125
- Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:39 pm
- Location: Cumbria
- Contact:
If you look at my site (see sig) I've got a fair bit of info on LPG systems. There's more than you'll need to know to just buy/run one, but it should help you identify what's what.
I'd suggest one thing you should look at is "does the conversion look like it belongs there ?" Whilst it's no guarantee, I'd suggest there's a fair correlation between workmanship and quality - if it looks like it was just thrown at the engine bay and left where it landed, then how much care was taken in other areas like setting up ?
If it's not been serviced recently, then budget on having it done. Sometimes the LPG system gets ignored, and whilst reliable, they do in fact have bits (mostly filters) that need replacing from time to time, and tuning can drift.
I'd suggest one thing you should look at is "does the conversion look like it belongs there ?" Whilst it's no guarantee, I'd suggest there's a fair correlation between workmanship and quality - if it looks like it was just thrown at the engine bay and left where it landed, then how much care was taken in other areas like setting up ?
If it's not been serviced recently, then budget on having it done. Sometimes the LPG system gets ignored, and whilst reliable, they do in fact have bits (mostly filters) that need replacing from time to time, and tuning can drift.
Land Rover 110 V8 LPG
Land Rover 90 petrol (no longer diseasel :D), still awaiting V8 & LPG
http://www.diy-lpg.co.uk
Land Rover 90 petrol (no longer diseasel :D), still awaiting V8 & LPG
http://www.diy-lpg.co.uk
Thks Simon - your site also have some valuable info which I didn't find on my research into LPG.
Just an update on my situ.
1. I have managed to sell my car - so carless and definitely on a journey to find my nx LPG car.
2. But have difficulty trying to buy a £3000 LPG CRV/Outlander (ok don't snigger)
3. Which now brings me to think abt buying a Petrol CRV/Outlander then getting it converted.
4. That means at least I have more control over the conversion process.
Soz, more questions:
1. I have found I don't need an adaptor (only applicable in EU)
2. But I need FLASHLube for the CRV/Outlander.
- Can I get some advice whether to go for a MANUAL kit or a ELECTRONIC one?
3. Have found the most reliable kit is PRINS or BRC, but are expensive.
- Any advice on the cost for these?
4. Really REALLY need a LPG garage (preferably ones that done a Japanese one, if CRV/Outlander even better) - don't mind travelling ANYWHERE in the country for piece of mind.
4. Annual LPG service is £30-£50? Is this right?
5. MOT can be done on Petrol or LPG? Which one better?
Thks for all your advice!
Just an update on my situ.
1. I have managed to sell my car - so carless and definitely on a journey to find my nx LPG car.
2. But have difficulty trying to buy a £3000 LPG CRV/Outlander (ok don't snigger)
3. Which now brings me to think abt buying a Petrol CRV/Outlander then getting it converted.
4. That means at least I have more control over the conversion process.
Soz, more questions:
1. I have found I don't need an adaptor (only applicable in EU)
2. But I need FLASHLube for the CRV/Outlander.
- Can I get some advice whether to go for a MANUAL kit or a ELECTRONIC one?
3. Have found the most reliable kit is PRINS or BRC, but are expensive.
- Any advice on the cost for these?
4. Really REALLY need a LPG garage (preferably ones that done a Japanese one, if CRV/Outlander even better) - don't mind travelling ANYWHERE in the country for piece of mind.
4. Annual LPG service is £30-£50? Is this right?
5. MOT can be done on Petrol or LPG? Which one better?
Thks for all your advice!
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billynoband
- Intermediate Member
- Posts: 1129
- Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:28 pm
- Location: Northants.
If you can find a car already converted then it would be better, mind the system is not too old though. No matter what anyone says LPG cars rarely sell for a lot more than petrol only ones.
Where are you in the country regards a lpg fitter?
If you are thinking Outlander then remember the suspension is very harsh where as the cvr is the opposite. Both are very reliable, but the factory lpg Outlanders have had trouble with spares availability. Have you though of a Subaru Outback?
Annual service is more like 60-100 quid.
The general idea on here is to have the car MOT running on petrol because then you know the car is ok in general and that is the base line for getting your lpg system working properly.
Don't know about the electronic flashlube because not many people use it yet. The professional fitters may know.
I find the standard flashlube one needs adjusting depending on the weather because the oil is thicker in winter but it's not hard to do. I don't know if it works yet though because it has not been fitted long. In 20k miles I will measure my valve gaps and let people know if it works on my car because they all but closed up in the first 20k I had lpg fitted without flashlube.
Where are you in the country regards a lpg fitter?
If you are thinking Outlander then remember the suspension is very harsh where as the cvr is the opposite. Both are very reliable, but the factory lpg Outlanders have had trouble with spares availability. Have you though of a Subaru Outback?
Annual service is more like 60-100 quid.
The general idea on here is to have the car MOT running on petrol because then you know the car is ok in general and that is the base line for getting your lpg system working properly.
Don't know about the electronic flashlube because not many people use it yet. The professional fitters may know.
I find the standard flashlube one needs adjusting depending on the weather because the oil is thicker in winter but it's not hard to do. I don't know if it works yet though because it has not been fitted long. In 20k miles I will measure my valve gaps and let people know if it works on my car because they all but closed up in the first 20k I had lpg fitted without flashlube.
But on the other hand, the emissions test if the car is presented on gas is a lot less strict. A car running on gas will pass the emissions test even if it has had the cat removed but it wouldn't on petrol.
If you go for a CRV, make sure you get a pre-2001 model. The emissions, and hence the road tax, is sufficiently high to push it into one of the top tax bands. I would also go for a car that has already been converted as you'd pay no more for it than one that isn't. Even if the system isn't up to scratch, it would be far cheaper to upgrade the front end that have a complete system installed. But, on a CRV make sure it has Flashlube, even if it has done only a few thousand miles without, the valves will already be suffering.
If you go for a CRV, make sure you get a pre-2001 model. The emissions, and hence the road tax, is sufficiently high to push it into one of the top tax bands. I would also go for a car that has already been converted as you'd pay no more for it than one that isn't. Even if the system isn't up to scratch, it would be far cheaper to upgrade the front end that have a complete system installed. But, on a CRV make sure it has Flashlube, even if it has done only a few thousand miles without, the valves will already be suffering.
Thks Guys!
I was determined to to buy a pre-Mar2001 model to save on road tax. Then someone told me that pre-Mar2006 cars were also cheap. (pre2001 MAX TAX £205; Pre2006 MAX TAX £215). In that case might as well buy something a bit newer (maybe 2003-reg).
Sorry, I meant SubaruOutback (not Outlander).
I found the most reliable soft-roaders where the CRV and Rav4. But I prefer a car, so the next most reliable AWD is the Legacy/Outback.
I saw a 2001 outback on ebay with LPG, looks great and the cylinder LPG just sat in its HUGE boot, so the spare was still there, after sawing those pics on ebay, I was set to buy one! But haven't seen another one since....
another question: Did anyone have any LPG problems during Xmas/NY when it was really cold? Have read somewhere the LPG kept stalling or cutting out ...
I was determined to to buy a pre-Mar2001 model to save on road tax. Then someone told me that pre-Mar2006 cars were also cheap. (pre2001 MAX TAX £205; Pre2006 MAX TAX £215). In that case might as well buy something a bit newer (maybe 2003-reg).
Sorry, I meant SubaruOutback (not Outlander).
I found the most reliable soft-roaders where the CRV and Rav4. But I prefer a car, so the next most reliable AWD is the Legacy/Outback.
I saw a 2001 outback on ebay with LPG, looks great and the cylinder LPG just sat in its HUGE boot, so the spare was still there, after sawing those pics on ebay, I was set to buy one! But haven't seen another one since....
another question: Did anyone have any LPG problems during Xmas/NY when it was really cold? Have read somewhere the LPG kept stalling or cutting out ...
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junkcatcher
- Member
- Posts: 637
- Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:54 pm
[quote="Gilbertd"]But on the other hand, the emissions test if the car is presented on gas is a lot less strict. A car running on gas will pass the emissions test even if it has had the cat removed but it wouldn't on petrol.
snip snip
[/quote]
Just to point out an LPG powered car may well pass the MOT LPG emissions test without a cat but still will fail the MOT test if a cat was originally fitted and removed.
MOT requirements on catalysts have been tightened up particularly for post 2001 vehicles. For post 2001 not only must a cat be fitted but it must be type approved for that particular model.
snip snip
[/quote]
Just to point out an LPG powered car may well pass the MOT LPG emissions test without a cat but still will fail the MOT test if a cat was originally fitted and removed.
MOT requirements on catalysts have been tightened up particularly for post 2001 vehicles. For post 2001 not only must a cat be fitted but it must be type approved for that particular model.
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martin rowe
- Junior Member
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:03 am
cats are not a requirement for MOT test, you just have to pass the emission test. in my experiance no LPG vehicle will pass a 'cat' emission test without the cat. if the vehicle presented for MOT is dual fuel, you must inform the test station, it will then have a basic (non cat) emission test, irrespective of which fuel it is running on. No dual fuel vehicle has a 'cat' emission test for MOT purpose.