Morrisons price increase

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Ben01
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Re: Morrisons price increase

#21 Post by Ben01 »

My response from MFG.

Dear Ben,

Regrettably our LPG supplier unilaterally decided to more than treble the supply premium for the supply of LPG on a take or leave it basis. Our pump price increase merely reflects the increase in LPG price than we have been faced with, our gross margin is the same as it was previously (its actually a little bit lower)

I fully appreciate that these increases are less than ideal and must seem counter intuitive given the reduction in Unleaded and Diesel costs and pump prices that have occurred over the last 6 months. Please be assured that should our LPG supply prices drop then we will look to reflect those reductions at the pump.

Rest assured that MFG remains committed to continuing to supply automotive LPG (we still have 97 forecourts selling the product), but each LPG location needs to generate sufficient margin to justify the continuation of the offer, given the other competing retail opportunities that we could do in its place.

Kind regards


Shaznay
Customer Service Administrator

So it looks like they are blaming their supplier which I think is Calor….

Avensist
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Re: Morrisons price increase

#22 Post by Avensist »

Gilbertd wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2024 7:30 pm These https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/ ... 340-741341 are what you want, My daughter introduced me to them and I buy 3 or 4 packs at a time. Can't be beaten.
Many thanks for this! My friend will love it!

Avensist
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Re: Morrisons price increase

#23 Post by Avensist »

Ben01 wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2024 4:09 pm My response from MFG.

Dear Ben,

Regrettably our LPG supplier unilaterally decided to more than treble the supply premium for the supply of LPG on a take or leave it basis. Our pump price increase merely reflects the increase in LPG price than we have been faced with, our gross margin is the same as it was previously (its actually a little bit lower)

I fully appreciate that these increases are less than ideal and must seem counter intuitive given the reduction in Unleaded and Diesel costs and pump prices that have occurred over the last 6 months. Please be assured that should our LPG supply prices drop then we will look to reflect those reductions at the pump.

Rest assured that MFG remains committed to continuing to supply automotive LPG (we still have 97 forecourts selling the product), but each LPG location needs to generate sufficient margin to justify the continuation of the offer, given the other competing retail opportunities that we could do in its place.

Kind regards


Shaznay
Customer Service Administrator

So it looks like they are blaming their supplier which I think is Calor….
Both MFG and Calor are equally as bad but MFG still guilty by far. In one word - Liar!

Still no response from CMA. You'll never know, they might be in this together. If not, it is still nice that all these info has been laid out on various places on the web in the event if someone decides to investigate properly.

Gilbertd
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Re: Morrisons price increase

#24 Post by Gilbertd »

My response to the reply from MFG would be to suggest they changed supplier then. A Flogas supplied station is Milton Keynes is selling at 81.9p where my local Flogas depot is selling at 89.9p. The manager of the depot runs an LPG converted Audi TT and he has argued with head office that they are charging too much but they are adamant that they are matching local prices. As there's numerous stations in the Birmingham area selling at 73p, maybe suggest they use the same suppliers that they do?

I have had a reply from CMA but I'm not impressed.

Our ref: CMAE2401094
Dear Mr Gilbert

Thank you for your email about our road fuel market study. We value people contacting us with information. This helps us to tackle anti-competitive behaviour and protect people and businesses from being disadvantaged by unfair practices.

What happens next? 

Your correspondence about LPG Autogas has been sent to our officials who will review the information you have provided and consider it in relation to our work. At this stage, we cannot comment on the market study beyond what has been said in our public statements on our website.  

On 3 July 2023 the CMA published its final report into the supply of road fuel in the United Kingdom. The report found that:
• From 2019-22, average annual supermarket margins have increased by 6 pence per litre (PPL)
• Increased margins on diesel across all retailers have cost drivers an extra 13 PPL from January 2023 to the end of May 2023
• With greater transparency and shopping around as effectively as possible, the driver of a typical family car could save up to £4.50 a tank within a 5-minute drive
• Motorway service stations are charging around 20 PPL more for petrol and 15 PPL more for diesel compared to other fuel stations.
Given this assessment of the market we have considered a range of options to address these concerns. We are recommending two measures:

• an open data fuel finder scheme
• an ongoing fuel monitor function.

If taken forward, these two measures will work in a mutually reinforcing way to increase incentives on retailers to price more competitively on fuel.

Will the CMA’s market study lead to further action? 

When the CMA undertakes a market study, we use our evidence-gathering powers and analyse whether there are competition problems in the sector and if so, what action could and should be taken to address them.

The outcome of this specific market study is that the CMA has made recommendations to the UK government on how competition in the sector could be improved.

There is no evidence to suggest that there has been cartel behaviour taking place and the CMA has no plans to open an enforcement case.

It should be noted that the CMA’s powers do not extend to creating or amending legislation, which can only be actioned by Parliament.

Can I get an update on my enquiry?  

We are unable to give you an update on your enquiry.  

While we find enquiries useful to inform our current and future work, we cannot offer a guarantee as to where or how your enquiry may be used. 

As mentioned above, we publish details of our cases on our website. You can subscribe to email alerts which will inform you when new information has been added. 

We will get in touch with you should we need more information.

Thank you again for contacting us.

Yours sincerely

General Enquiries Team
Competition and Markets Authority


I intend replying that I am not enquiring about their Road Fuel Market Study, I'm reporting unfair trading and profiteering on the behalf of MFG......
96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
93 Range Rover 4.2LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
97 Range Rover 4.0SE, multipoint, sold
98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, AEB Leo, daily motor
96 Range Rover 4.6HSE Ascot, AEB Leo, my spare


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Avensist
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Re: Morrisons price increase

#25 Post by Avensist »

All these bodies seem to be wasting tax payers money. Utter waster of space. The facts are all there, the signs are all there with everyone complaining through this forum as well as media discussions, Facebook etc. It's so obvious. They might all be in it together!!

Gilbertd
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Re: Morrisons price increase

#26 Post by Gilbertd »

It's all pretty pathetic really. I drove to the Netherlands and back yesterday (making it quite a long day). LPG in France, 99.9 Euro cents a litre (84.6p), Belgium, 75.2 Euro cents (63.7p) and Netherlands 79.9 Euro cents. Now nit only are they all cheaper than here, as most of you know I regularly travel around Europe and the interesting thing is that those prices haven't changed in at least 18 months (if anything, the price in the Netherlands has gone down a little, I'm pretty sure there used to be a bigger difference between there and Belgium. It did make me think, Belgium may have @!## roads (and there is almost invariably an hour's worth of delays on the Antwerp ring road), the motorway services make our seem clean but you've got cheap LPG, good beer and amazing chocolates so on balance, it isn't such a bad place after all....
96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
93 Range Rover 4.2LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
97 Range Rover 4.0SE, multipoint, sold
98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, AEB Leo, daily motor
96 Range Rover 4.6HSE Ascot, AEB Leo, my spare


Proud member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

Avensist
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Re: Morrisons price increase

#27 Post by Avensist »

We always seem to get the bad end of the deal here in the UK...

Despite the ULEZ and all those redtapes, whenever I go to London to work, the car and other things still get covered in black particles, coming from diesels even staying only for few days. LPG is a good alternative to tackle this yet government doing very little in this area. And when confronted, they emphasise EVs which not many can afford or run practically.

russellwheeler
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Re: Morrisons price increase

#28 Post by russellwheeler »

So MFG have got back, they blame their supplier - take it or leave it (I will leave it at 1.30 a litre as it's cheaper to run petrol)

Dear Russell



Regrettably our LPG supplier unilaterally decided to more than treble the supply premium for the supply of LPG on a take or leave it basis. Our pump price increase merely reflects the increase in LPG price than we have been faced with, our gross margin is the same as it was previously (its actually a little bit lower)

I fully appreciate that these increases are less than ideal and must seem counter intuitive given the reduction in Unleaded and Diesel costs and pump prices that have occurred over the last 6 months. Please be assured that should our LPG supply prices drop then we will look to reflect those reductions at the pump.


Rest assured that MFG remains committed to continuing to supply automotive LPG (we still have 97 forecourts selling the product), but each LPG location needs to generate sufficient margin to justify the continuation of the offer, given the other competing retail opportunities that we could do in its place.

Avensist
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Re: Morrisons price increase

#29 Post by Avensist »

What a bollocks reply from MFG.

Remember back in the days when those stations were MRH before MFG took over? Those were great times but since MFG took over it became the most expensive in terms of both LPG and petrol/diesel. Nothing but trouble.

Gilbertd
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Re: Morrisons price increase

#30 Post by Gilbertd »

Just received the identical email from MFG. I'll be replying to them suggesting they find a different supplier. I'm sure Flogas, and any others, would be only too happy to supply 97 stations around the country.

The concerning part is the last sentence, each location needs to generate sufficient margin to justify it. At 129.9ppl, I doubt many of them will sell much at all so they will be able to justify removing the pumps.

I also intend writing to Morrisons head office, to the directors directly rather than to customer services pointing out that most people won't be aware that the filling stations aren't operated by Morrisons but by MFG so it will appear that it is Morrisons themselves that are ripping people off to the detriment of their reputation. Anyone know of a journalist who could start something in the press? Front page of the Sun with the headline, "Morrisons increase prices by 30%" could cause a bit of a stink....
96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
93 Range Rover 4.2LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
97 Range Rover 4.0SE, multipoint, sold
98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, AEB Leo, daily motor
96 Range Rover 4.6HSE Ascot, AEB Leo, my spare


Proud member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

PaulD1963
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Re: Morrisons price increase

#31 Post by PaulD1963 »

I suspect that's precisely their angle: rack up the price of LPG, then, after a while, when no one buys it any more because it's almost as dear as petrol, they can legitimately claim that demand for it waned, so they are therefore justified in ripping out the equipment to put in EV chargers/snake oil tanks/solar powered widgets/whatever.

My one local supplier did pretty much the same thing a couple of years ago. The price kept on creeping up & up, until it hit £1 (when you could still get it at plenty of other places for less than 80p). Eventually, after everyone stopped buying there, for obvious reasons, they ripped out the pump after it had been out of order for months. The annoying thing is, they haven't even used the space for something else - they've put a dustbin where the pump was!

Had they kept LPG at a sensible, yet still profitable price, they would still be selling it as the only retailer in a 15 mile radius and therefore making a profit on it. Instead, that space now houses a bin and makes them no profit whatsoever! I just don't get the business model? I suspect some of it is simple greed - I should add that this station is historically one of the dearest in the area for petrol & diesel. With the LPG, they rack up the price hoping to net extra profit from a monopoly in the area - then, when punters vote with their feet, rather than back down and return to a sensible pricing structure, they'd rather shoot themselves in the foot and simply stop selling it. And replace it with a bin! Brilliant business model! And, whatever happened to businesses providing a service? For a fair return, of course. It seems as though a fair return isn't enough for many businesses these days - they want obscene returns or would rather not bother it appears.

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Re: Morrisons price increase

#32 Post by LPGC »

MFG's excuse of blaming suppliers for the price increase to £1.29+ doesn't seem believable, smaller independent suppliers can make a profit selling LPG at a much lower price and they don't have the buying power MFG has.

It seems obvious MFG could buy it at a cheaper price and at least match cheapest independent forecourt prices if they wanted to. So it seems they don't want to. They must be aware that at their new price it is hardly (if at all) worth running on LPG because petrol isn't much more expensive, so they know they're not going to sell very much of it at that price.

Seems they have intentionally raised the price of LPG so they won't sell much so they can use lack of demand as excuse to remove the facilities. If so, we would expect this to have been part of the plan all along, including when MFG was talking to CMA about taking over Morrisons forecourts.

But that probably isn't all there is to it. If MFG's excuse of 'high supply prices' is true the gas supplier MFG uses must also be 'in on it'. They will know that the price rise would make LPG uncompetitive on the forecourt compared to petrol, why do they charge Morrisons a high price but still supply other firms at much lower cost?

Some of the big names in gas supply have had action taken against them in the past for uncompetitive behaviour but that concerned home heating customers with bulk storage tanks, not as far as I know road fuel sales. It's been a while since I checked prices of bulk supply to home heating customers but if they can charge say 45p per litre to home heating customers who live in random places 'out in the sticks', why can't they charge people who would like to set up forecourts a similar price plus road duty?

I know of plenty people who have looked into setting up forecourts, it's always the price of supply and/or suppliers insistence on the entrepreneur buying/hiring equipment plus set up fees that have put them off, almost the exact same issues that got suppliers in trouble with the CMA (or a similar body) with before regarding bulk gas sales to home heating customers. Yet the entrepreneur knows that just down the road Joe Bloggs gets his supply of heating gas from the same supplier at a low price and now they can get any firm to fill their bulk tank, which was one of the stipulations by the CMA/body.

I will be sure to mention all points above in my complaint to the CMA Competition Marketing Authority.

We may be in a bad position when trying to persuade CMA (or any other body) that forecourts need to keep selling LPG. Legally the owner of any vehicle that is converted to LPG should have informed DVLA about the change of fuel type, but for many years (and still now) the gas company trade body LiquidGas (formerly UKLPG, formerly LPGA) advised customers that they needed to register converted vehicles on their own private database, a database that is not included in the numbers when DVLA are counting the number of LPG converted vehicles on the roads. Given that some fraction of LPG sales at forecourts is attributed to refuelling 'safe fill' type bottles which detract from gas companies sales of bottled leisure gas the CMA may think it is only fair that gas companies should regain some of their bottled gas sales. The trade body and these safe fill type bottles may have shot LPG forecourts in the foot.

Will indulge in some hearsay for the rest of this post. I've heard all sorts of stories and theories, including things about MFG having associations with electric vehicle / infrastructure companies. And including stuff that goes back to the days of Shell pulling out of supplying LPG at their owned forecourts. I didn't quite get one of the other stories I was told straight but it went something like this, apparently there was a firm that wanted to buy Shell and other forecourts / or a gas supply company and other gas supply companies, but CMA wouldn't let them at the time because that would have meant the firm would own too many forecourts / gas companies, so the firm bought one (concerning Shell) and by either controlling Shell directly or the gas supply company directly pulled LPG from Shell forecourts, which meant that Shell no longer sold LPG, which meant that it couldn't be said they'd have too many forecourts selling LPG if they bought another set of forecourts... Nothing here I could mention to CMA as I don't have enough info but would bet there is some truth in some of the things said.

At the moment I'm trying to help beat them at their own game by selling the LPG transfer pumps. Gas companies have to compete with other types of fuels for home heating customers, so they'd really shoot themselves in the foot if they suddenly increased cost of bottled gas. By buying gas in bottles and pumping it into our vehicles we get it at the same price (though with the higher 'leisure gas' rate of VAT as opposed to the lower 'heating' rate of VAT) as home heating customers. While on the subject of taxes I should also mention that legally if using gas from bottles (no road duty already paid) we should pay the road duty on it, or if not it is the government who lose out on that revenue not MFG, but some people don't pay the road duty and once the gas is in the tank it is indistinguishable from LPG bought from a forecourt. If MFG or some associate company has interests in the gas supply companies and see road fuel LPG sales as a small area of business they intend on pulling out of, they still won't want to suddenly pull the plug on profits from bottled gas sales.
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Budgetbond
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Re: Morrisons price increase

#33 Post by Budgetbond »

Hiyah not posted for a while but been following was gonna post my own thread but anyway this seems appropriate, anyway been running lpg again for the last 3 months after i sorn d my car and ran something else for a while.
I had to adjust my valves due to my own installation teethings etc (+ found a good simple cost effective way of doing it and tried an innovative fix to oil burning) both were fairly successful, but tbh i probably need a new engine long term (it has got high mileage anyway).
But anyway my car now runs great again on gas (but has got a big misfire on petrol which could be a myriad of things, but ive ruled out the obvious)
So anyway, am going to try + run gas for as long as i poss can. Its just a bit dismaying now with the lack of supplies and the recent escalation of prices.
Morrisons i used to have positive feelings about as a whole brand as a bastion of consistent supply but shame on you now for your profiteering etc.
My region still has an ok supply but Morrisons my nearest has now gone upto 1.29. I can still get it for 0.75 thankfully for not too far but a couple of other local suppliers have diminished.
So Simon, ive read your great posts, tell us more about your transfer pumps and help put the supply more into our own hands (ill send you a pm)

Dapedza
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Re: Morrisons price increase

#34 Post by Dapedza »

Morrisons in Cambourne, just to the West of Cambridge is now 139.9/litre!
It’s a complete waste of time, they may as well rip it out at that price. What a shame.
Used LPG for many years, now most of the suppliers have dried up, or you can go to Morrisons to get ripped off.

Gilbertd
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Re: Morrisons price increase

#35 Post by Gilbertd »

Having got the same copy and paste reply from my first email to MFG, in a moment of boredom, I decided to reply, so sent them this:

Dear Shaznay

Thank you for your reply of almost a month ago but I have been away in Europe where I was charged between 0.67 and 0.99 Euro per litre for LPG. I appreciate that the tax liabilities may differ from the UK but those are the sort of prices I have been paying in the UK for many years, roughly half the price of petrol or diesel.

I run a very small business and if one of my suppliers increased their charges substantially, I would simply go to a different supplier. As an example, the Tongwell Street service station in Milton Keynes, just off junction 14 of the M1, are supplied by Flogas and are retailing LPG at 81.9p per litre. I am sure that if a company with 97 filing stations nationally and the buying power of a company such as MFG approached Flogas, they would be only too willing to supply at a competitive price. Would this not be a more sensible option? It would restore the reputation of MFG, or more importantly Morrisons, as I am fairly sure the bulk of customers assume it is Morrisons that operate their filling stations.

You final paragraph is what concerns me more than anything. Each outlet needs to generate sufficient margin but by charging around the same as for petrol, they aren’t going to. Customers will vote with their feet and stop using the Morrisons forecourts. That will then give the opportunity to remove LPG on the grounds that it is not economically viable. With the LPG pumps located on the same islands as the petrol and diesel pumps, the location isn’t suitable for an EV charge point for example, so unless you intend replacing them with Hydrogen pumps, what other use of the space is there? Stations that keep their prices low, are busy while those that, to the layman without knowledge of the background, appear to be profiteering, do not get the trade. The Morrisons forecourts are convenient, with many being close to major trunk roads, open 7 days a week and with long opening hours. Whether your operation includes sales in the forecourt shop or not, I have no idea but it is rare for anyone to fill up and not spend extra in the shop, making them ideal for anyone on a long journey.

Your comments would be much appreciated but I would urge you to investigate an alternative supplier and hopefully restore the reputation of both Morrisons and MFG. Newspaper headlines of ‘Morrisons increase fuel prices by 30%’ is not going to do much for their reputation either.

Regards

Richard


and I've had a reply......

Hi Richard

Thank you for your response and taking the time to provide your feedback in regards to the pricing of LPG.

Unfortunately we are unable to provide any further information in regards to this however we assure you we have passed on your concerns to the relevant department to look into accordingly. We would like to apologise for any inconvenience this has caused.

Kind regards

Shaznay
Customer Service Administrator


he could have just said, "we don't give a shit, so f*** off and stop taking up my time"
96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
93 Range Rover 4.2LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
97 Range Rover 4.0SE, multipoint, sold
98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, AEB Leo, daily motor
96 Range Rover 4.6HSE Ascot, AEB Leo, my spare


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Gilbertd
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Re: Morrisons price increase

#36 Post by Gilbertd »

However, when I next get a few minutes and feeling in a stirring mood, I shall be emailing Morrisons themselves pointing out that I previously would do my weekly shopping at their store in St Ives as I could fill my car(s) while there. Now I have no reason to visit I will be doing my shopping elsewhere. Other than a few of the more enlightened on here, I suspect most people aren't aware that the Morrisons filling stations aren't actually operated by Morrisons so it is them that have increased fuel prices by 30%. If anyone else feels like stirring things up, the email address for the CEO of Morrisons is rami.baitieh@morrisonsplc.co.uk
96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
93 Range Rover 4.2LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
97 Range Rover 4.0SE, multipoint, sold
98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, AEB Leo, daily motor
96 Range Rover 4.6HSE Ascot, AEB Leo, my spare


Proud member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

CNG
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Re: Morrisons price increase

#37 Post by CNG »

I had a bulk tank at my last house some ten years back. I was snookered no matter which way I went. Flogas and Calor operated a cartel such that even owning my own tank had me caught. I gave Calor/Flogas the heave-ho and ordered 6-Ton of coal in July. Current home has mains gas.

Even Morrisons have only two choices. On are larger scale yes, but I suspect the options are no different for them than they were for me. The idea that Messrs. Morrisons increase prices to get to a place where LPG is not viable simply doesn't fly. That'd be some fake logic-conspiracy.

However... here's what does make sense. And you won't like this.... When tanks expire - as mine was about to do- the idea of replacement with demand decline makes no sense. Any LPG supply becomes so much scrap. A supplier shoves the price up as a last hurrah then says good-night.

And/or expands the 'supermarket' all filling stations now become. A dustbin or invest in any new LPG pump/tank installation?

Nah... methinks, call the pikey. Take the dustbin.

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Re: Morrisons price increase

#38 Post by Gilbertd »

The thing about this is that it isn't Morrisons. Last year MFG (Motor Fuels Group, or Motorists F***ing Group) bought all the filling stations from Morrisons and run them with their branding. MFG are well known for charging more for fuel, all fuels not just LPG, anyway to the point where the CMA got involved. As I pointed out to them in my last email. The Shell branded, but privately owned, filling station just off Junc 14 of the M1 is supplied by Flogas and retails LPG at 81.9 p per litre. They must be making a profit on it but even if MFG bought supplies from Flogas and kept the price down to 90-95p per litre, nobody would complain, we'd got used to paying that anyway. Any station that doesn't sell a lot removes LPG when the tanks expire, the rest, those that sell much more and are profitable, have new tanks installed.
96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
93 Range Rover 4.2LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
97 Range Rover 4.0SE, multipoint, sold
98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, AEB Leo, daily motor
96 Range Rover 4.6HSE Ascot, AEB Leo, my spare


Proud member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

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Re: Morrisons price increase

#39 Post by LPGC »

MFG seem to be wanting to promote electric vehicles, if some of the stories I've heard are true they are shareholders in electric vehicle manufacturing and/or infrastructure companies. A vehicle converted to LPG can cost less per mile to run than an EV and any petrol vehicle can be converted to run on LPG. If it's true that MFG have vested interests in EVs it shouldn't be too surprising that they want to see an end to LPG vehicles. On that basis it does fly that MFG should want to see LPG price increases that make LPG not viable. Not sure if LPG was even mentioned during CMA looking into MFG's takeover of Morrisons forecourts but regardless it doesn't seem a long shot that MFG would promise to keep LPG available at their forecourts as long as it was selling, then intentionally increase the price so they don't sell any, then remove the pumps.

Flogas and Calor did operate a cartel regards home heating bulk tank customers, for a long time customers were contracted to have to use the same firm that installed the tank to fill the bulk tank, CMA got involved and changed things so after a number of years of the tank being installed the customer was free to use any gas supplier to refill the bulk tank. I'm not going to try to find a link but this was 'explained' on UKLPG's website a few years ago, the inverted commas because of course the trade body UKLPG is about protecting it's members (Calor and Flogas) interests and worded the 'explanation' in such way that still tried to persuade customers that they should stick with a supplier that was one of their members and worded so as to make the customers think they would need to jump through a lot of hoops to switch suppliers, hoops including things like safety inspections at time of switching supplier that were probably unnecessary but 'advised' by the big suppliers or by their trade body UKLPG, on-going service contracts, etc. Customers don't need the same firm that supplies gas to also maintain the tank (or boiler in case of a home heating setup, or pumps in case of a forecourt) but the big suppliers and their trade body want to give the impression they do. The big two suppliers and their trade body continue to try to give the impression they are the rule makers and that they get the final say on what is safe/unsafe. They don't make the rules and they're not the only firms that can test equipment but they want us to think they make the rules and are the only people who can test equipment.

If smaller independent gas suppliers can supply cheaper than Calor and Flogas then Calor and Flogas must be profiteering and not competing against each other as they should be but MFG don't have to buy gas from those companies. If a forecourt close to an MFG forecourt can buy LPG cheap enough to sell it at 85p per litre there is no reason why the MFG forecourt couldn't buy it from the same supplier and sell it at the same price, it doesn't matter if the supplier is Calor, Flogas or any of the independents. MFG also don't need to keep paying Calor or Flogas for upkeep/servicing of the equipment.

If I were running Calor/Flogas/UKLPG (Liquidgas) I'd also be wondering what home heating bulk gas customers made of the fact that LPG sold at MFG forecourts is now as expensive as petrol/diesel per litre and MFG blame Calor/Flogas for the price increase. If they really have increased the price to MFG as part of some sort of conspiracy to stop supplying motorists they deserve to lose the confidence of their home heating customers and lose that custom too, let the competitive independent smaller companies grow and take their place, it would be far better for consumers.
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2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
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LPGC
Installer
Posts: 5515
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:01 pm
Location: Yorkshire
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Re: Morrisons price increase

#40 Post by LPGC »

Quoting someone of Facebook...

Still waiting for a reply as I only wrote to them late last night but I contacted my MP via the WriteToThem website. She is one of the new bunch of recently elected representatives.
"Dear Sarah Hall,
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
I would like, if you can please, for you to raise a question on my behalf with transport and environment secretaries please.
My question is, why is LPG or Autogas as it is also known no longer being encouraged as a road fuel?
I understand the need to move forward on the road towards net zero carbon emissions and the date set for the end of petrol and diesel cars.
But, not everyone can afford a brand new or used warrantied electric or hybrid car. Many older cars are kept on the road burning petrol and diesel. The average age of most of my cars has been around 18-20 years and kept roadworthy. For many that will be the case while such vehicles are available.
There is an alternative fuel, once promoted by the government but now ignored that could easily provide an instant stop gap carbon reduction while the electric grid and Eco friendly generating capability are brought up to the level needed for home charging without putting the infrastructure under strain once electric vehicles reach critical mass. The conversation cost of making a petrol car suitable to use LPG is under £2000 which is less than the cost of any used electric or hybrid car.
In the early 2000s Autogas was widely available at regular filling station forecourt. Now it is mainly limited to those owner by the company MFG who have pledged in 2022 to completely remove it by the end of 2024. The spanner in the works for them was, despite removing it from stations with less demand, many of their stations still had significant demand. Their answer to this problem recently was to put up LPG to at or above the price of unleaded E10 95RON petrol despite LPG having a duty rate set at 50% of that of petrol at the time of writing this. Pure profiteering especially when the reason they give is that their supplier tripled the supply price and they weren't big enough haggle. Why is this patently untrue? Because while they as a company are the single biggest provider of Autogas on the forecourt many smaller one man bands are still able to supply LPG to motorists at ½ to ⅔ the price of MFG and sometimes struggle to keep up with demand.
Previously there were around 2000 LPG filling points in the UK now there are around 500. More and more are in places like boat yards, industrial estates and farms.
LPG is a petroleum refining byproduct that used to be flared off. Then it was discovered to have a commercial and financially viable use as domestic off network gas supply for cooking and heating, camping and BBQ, gas and Autogas.
Why is it is environmentally important as a stopgap road fuel? Because the exhaust emissions of a converted petrol car are 80% lower than petrol and 90% lower than diesel car of similar specification.
It should be encouraged rather than ignored by the government and priced out of use by the main supplier until they can say there is no demand and they can remove the pumps and required storage tanks.
Again I thank you for your time to read this and hope you are able to raise my concerns with the environment and transport secretaries that a vitally important fuel eco-friendly opportunity is being allowed and even encouraged to dwindle away when it it is being embraced in the EU as a much more viable option in the short term compared to EVs and refilling is commonly available alongside EV and CNG vehicles at many filling stations in the Eastern and Western sides of the community.
Yours sincerely,
(name provided).
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240

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