Disappearing LPG pumps...

[Gilbertd]

The difference is that there's a network of filling stations for LPG worldwide. OK, this thread was started as some are no longer there, but there's still a lot of places where you can fill up compared with CNG. As I pointed out earlier, the only time I have seen CNG at a mainstream filling station was near Milan. I've no idea on how it works out on a cost basis either, using your own compressor at home may work out very cheap but even when there is a supply readily available, how much does it cost? I could see what LPGC is getting at. Run on CNG for local journeys where you are never more than half a tank range from home and LPG when further afield and you need to fill up somewhere else. A bit like the people that run diesels on used veg oil, if you run out you can always fill up with diesel.

[CNG]

Of course, I am pulling your proverbial, for 90% of users, LPG is the way to go. My solution works because I have a particular mileage pattern, and the inclination to do it. More because I can, as anything. A hydraulics/pnuematics development-engineer background might help.


Definitely a left-field approach, to the point that when speaking even to those in the LPG industry, they double-take my words or miss what I've just told them. Many carry on trying to sell me LPG kit.
Back on topic, it seems LPG is quietly in decline, the conversion boys are few, pumps less, factory-fit non-existent, and if eBays listings for used P38 kits is anything to go by, the conversion-trade made a mint back in the day. The usual suspects in my area have shut-up shop or diversified. We need the pros to be making decent money today, because that's good for us.

[Gilbertd]

Thankfully a lot of the cowboy installers have gone and those that are left are doing a decent job and kept busy. The secondhand kits on eBay have usually been removed from a vehicle being scrapped and broken for spares, so it is just another spare part. What makes it worse is that most modern cars use direct injection engines that are not as easy to convert. As for filling stations, I'm probably lucky in having 7 within a 6 mile radius of home. I work on filling up every 150 miles if I'm away from home so will probably fill when I pass a station rather than leaving it until I'm almost out. www.filllpg.co.uk is invaluable when away from home.

[DodgeRover1]

More because I can,

That made me smile!

Is there nowhere in the UK can hydostatic test the tanks?

[Brian_H]

If it's anything like the case with lpg tanks, the cost Is much the same as a new tank. Remember it has to get to the test location and back somehow. Easy if you can drop it off, but not something you could send with a courier

[CNG]

Not exactly my specialist subject however I believe you retest welding cylinders, but CNG cylinders are not something you'd usually pressure-test. They're scrap at expiry.
I wrote that my solution is unsuitable for 90% of you - that's probably incorrect. With respect to what's involved in all practicality, the learning-curve is too steep if you don't have prior background. Both in mis-directed funds or safety, there is no room for error. The more I think back, the closer to 99% the percentage gets. Yes, there's a real element of "Because I can". Bloke-in-a-shed, I tend to do this sort of thing for amusement as much as any eye to its practical end.

I think you are correct about the used kits. It has to be said, those used kits appear to be sourced from what must be 15-20YO vehicles. This bodes well, ie they've been used, and kept the car viable for longer; the car itself became scrap. There's no evidence of near-new and pricey kits being offered, clearly those still sit in their respective vehicles, another good sign. We want plenty of pros making a good living.

[LPGC]

I've got a good idea what the answers will be to following questions but just to make sure I've got it right...

When you've got the setup, how do you reckon running costs compare between CNG, LPG and petrol?

Who connects the home CNG compressor to your house supply? If your gas supplier doesn't know about the compressor, do they notice your gas usage has gone up dramatically and send an engineer around to see what's going on (gas leak etc)? Do they make sure you pay road duty on gas used above your prior average for time of year?

To fill with a given amount (say equivalent to 50L or LPG) of CNG, what's the cost breakdown in terms of CNG versus electricity (to power the compressor) before and after road fuel duty?

[LPGC]

Thankfully a lot of the cowboy installers have gone and those that are left are doing a decent job and kept busy.

Most of the real cowboys have gone but some of the good ones have also gone, I reckon most that are left do a middling job with few doing a sparkling job.
The problem is most people will expect 'middling job' for someone classed as a pro to be pretty good as they'd expect from a pro who thoroughly knows their job but to me most LPG pros don't seem to thoroughly know their job at all.

Over the last couple of years I've converted over 200 of the same model vehicle. Apart from one customer who had a vacuum pipe come off that was probably my fault the only problems with all of those I did were a reducer temp sensor that broke - I went to Cornwall to sort that one, and a reducer that developed a minor internal fault (the inlet needle didn't close fully off, so when solenoids opened before gas injection started, vapour pressure got high causing a minor problem during changeover).. I drove to Bristol to fix that one. The total number of this model vehicle converted over the last couple of years is probably no more than 300, of which I converted 200, so all other installers put together converted 100. Yet during this period I have fixed over 50 that were converted elsewhere, all of which should supposedly have been covered by their LPG installer warranty... just that people get fed up returning back to someone who cannot fix their own work (in many cases problems were there from day 1).

So... I convert 200 examples of a particular model of vehicle and have 1 very minor fault probably that I caused, plus a 1% failure rate for components.... which I fixed by visiting the customer wherever they were. On the other hand various other installers convert 100 of this same model vehicle and I end up fixing half of those because the owner got fed up of the installer not being able to fix the problem when the owner visited them. Even when some of those I didn't convert seem (to the owner) to work well and give decent results, most have been fitted with a range of compromises I would never be happy with and on most with compromises I can tell the difference (and/or diagnostics / fuel trims etc can) even if the owner can't. Another thing about compromises on installs is they make future problems more likely. This is a vehicle which isn't particularly demanding, or the difference between my and most other installers results would be even more profound! I can offer to visit the customer to fix issues with my installs because I know my installs won't have problems. I do it because I can, because usually I don't have to, and because this goes with my reputation to assure my customers that they're coming to the best place to have their vehicle LPG converted. Either of those last 2 points (I don't get problems and when I do I get off backend to sort them promptly and will even visit the customer at my expense) would be enough to make me seem a good bet to most potential customers, both points put together make me a no brainer for many of my customers. Most installers could never hope to visit customers who have problems because too many of their customers have problems and they sometimes end up effectively fobbing some of them off, then I fix their customers problems and I get all further LPG work from what were the other firms customers

Mostly a pretty poor show... Far from having the knowledge skills and experience their customers should expect, to me most display knowledge skills and experience more as should be expected from an apprentice with under a years experience even when they call themselves pros and have been doing it years. Not wide enough ranging knowledge / skills and not in depth enough knowledge skills. Difficult to think they'd be classed as a pro if they had the same level of ability in most other fields. Not exactly rocket science to get things right in this trade, makes me wonder why there are so many pretenders at being good LPG pros when surely quite a few more could be good if they really tried and got more in-depth with what they're supposed to be pro at.

Just today I fixed a problem with a BRC install that was present since the vehicle was converted many years ago (overfuelling on a Skoda Turbo), supplied and fitted parts for an old AG system, fixed an AEB based system (I was the first to use the term AEB based when other installers were talking OMVL Romano etc as different systems and still asking questions about parts compatibility), fixed an AFC system. I doubt anyone else would know their way around all those different systems well enough to fix all even if they did have the right gear and software. Yet they tend to say they 'fit the best system / best suited to the vehicle' regardless of what few systems they know and irrespective of what vehicle they're asked to convert. The dodgy mindset is akin to saying Holley carbs are good so fit them to every vehicle even though in their case their Holley may be an LPG system with poor spec poor reliability components and an ECU that is incapable of addressing aspects that have major effects on correct fuelling for the specific vehicle they're tasked with converting.

[colin33]

@LPGC

Well Simon, why didn't you tell me you were coming to Cornwall??
After nearly 10 years of use my diy installs are still awaiting your expert appraisal and a possible tinkering of calibration.
Let me know when you're next in my area, and maybe I can tempt you into a visit somehow...?

[LPGC]

@LPGC

Well Simon, why didn't you tell me you were coming to Cornwall??
After nearly 10 years of use my diy installs are still awaiting your expert appraisal and a possible tinkering of calibration.
Let me know when you're next in my area, and maybe I can tempt you into a visit somehow...?

Hi Colin, I expect to next be in your area in July/August... But I'll be on holiday then! Unless in the extremely unlikely event one of my customers in Cornwall (I guess 100+) has a problem with one of their vehicles that I converted, in that case I'll be down to sort their problem out and will offer to visit you too

[colin33]

@LPGC

On holiday? Surely while on holiday you still get the urge to tinker? And if you're complete with caravan/campervan I even have a loverly camping field you can occupy for free

[LPGC]

Hmmm tempting @Colin33 lol... I usually book 2 adjacent pitches on Porth Beach (Newquay) Tourist Site, which costs an arm and a leg, especially for the 2 weeks we stayed last year... We take the large caravan and awning but grown up kids come down and pitch tents next door (which I pay for pft) so there's a large group of us but it's handy for Newquay. Around 1990 I knew the owners and could informally pitch up anywhere I wanted at 2am after the 3 and a quarter hours to drive the 350 miles (lol before speed cameras) and stay a couple of nights at around £10 a night, these days costs about a £1k to rent 2 patches of grass and takes me 6 hours to get down - If you're in a good location why don't you cash in on this?

[colin33]

Ah yes, we used to caravan at Porth Beach occasionally but like everywhere now, the prices are ridiculous for a patch of grass! I grew up on a smallholding (TR13) and when the parents left, myself and siblings all inherited a field each. Although my brother ran a small 10 pitch campsite for a couple of years it's not ideally suited to anything bigger due to its location and narrow access roads. I keep my old 4 berth caravan there (15') and although we've had bigger caravans there occasionally they're a bit tricky to get in. It's a beautiful spot though for those who enjoy the quiet life, surrounded by nature. Has leccy and water, but a patchy phone signal, so I love it Nearest town is about 5 miles away, pub 1 mile. I'm not sure whether my brother will be running his camp site this summer but my field is always open to friends and family