Disappearing LPG pumps...

[Brian_H]

Much of a similar issue for me in a different way, this week for example I've been away from home from Sunday evening, and won't return till Thursday evening. Every station I've gone past with the exception of Chievely services and the Esso at Ringwood, is a Shell one. And Ringwood is currently broken to boot.

Two of my local to home stations are Shell, though one of those used to be Total, and is a Flogas station rather than Autogas. Time will tell whats planned there, but hopefully they will last somewhat longer. Key thing to see is what happens with the stations that only got pumps relatively recently - Shell Cobham on the m25 clearly hasn't been installed for 20 years, as the services has only existed for 8 years. The Shell near Croydon is another one that only recently got LPG as well. It would seem sensible to get the best from their investment and use the equipment until its life is up, unless its actually costing them more to keep operating it than it gets them back.

CNG not an option as I don't own my home, nor is there any gas there or anywhere to refill closer than Daventry as far as I know.

Electric not an option either(nowhere to charge it at home and unpredictable as to where you might find to charge it anywhere else, as I'm in different place every day). Not that its something I particularly want either. LPG works for me usually, but this might prove a problem, or may lead to installing a second tank in the car to extend the range.

[CNG]

Larger tanks it is, my solution would come a disaster for both of you.

[Brian_H]

I find your posts interesting though all the same, its certainly a different option which appears to work well for you

[Gilbertd]

The only place I have ever seen a CNG pump was at a huge filling station near Milan in Italy where there was petrol, diesel, LPG and CNG all available, never seen it anywhere else and I've driven to or through virtually every EU country. In comparison LPG ranges from reasonable availability, much like here, to available at every other farmhouse in places like Poland where there are LPG only filling stations.

[CNG]

You'll not find too many in the UK either, those that exist require key access/ or accounts. This isn't made easy. 5-6 in total. I know of, but two, where you simply 'rock-up' with a credit card. Lest you forget, they're not 24 hrs.

'Big corporate' likes it, finding tax lay-offs for green 'browny points'. Tesco, DHL, Waitrose and few more besides. It has to be said they tend to use more LNG over CNG. It'd be In their HGV fleet, where even heavier LNG tanks don't dent payload too much. Gasrec DIRFT etc. Gas from Land-fill etc.

Tesco's home-delivery used it for a while. It takes one driver to 'forget' to attach his supply overnight - the van's knocked-out for next day. A few right-on councils run their dust-carts and mobile-libraries on it. Take-up in the UK is about the loweset in the world. The Yanks like it... a bit, take-up is highest in second and thrid world counties.

We don't seem to shine for LPG either. Volvo made a few factory-fit Bi-fuel - and failed to sell. No one goes to Hollywood premieres in factory-fit LPG White Astra vans. Pumps are going or gone, installers shut-up shop, and quack-physics rules the roost as EV comes 'woke'.

It's counter-intuitive, but true. We must conclude, UK petrol/diesel is cheap. You heard it here first.

[DodgeRover1]

I think CNG has taken a bit of a backseat in the US now as users are finding that it is uneconomic to get a new tank fitted once the use by date has expired

[Gilbertd]

I've seen a few trucks just recently with Running on Natural Gas emblazoned down the side. They are operated by Magnus Logistics on behalf of Celotex St-Gobain and are Volvo FH Tractor units on LNG. Does this mean they have spark ignition engines rather than the usual big oil burners?

[LPGC]

In the UK natural gas (NG) is piped to most houses but compressed natural gas (CNG) is sold at only very few forecourts. LPG wins over CNG in terms of engine power and availability but in my mind it would only take homes and maybe workplaces being fitted with CNG compressors to make CNG almost as viable as LPG - If people think electric only vehicles are viable when there are few forecourts selling charge-ups, no chance of running on petrol and recharging with electricity is slow and something best done overnight at home then surely the prospect of refuelling anywhere there is a CNG compressor (like can be set up at home and work) plus the ability to run on petrol is more viable than pure EV? Depending on how quick you want a CNG fill to be a home/work fill compressor can be had for £couple grand.

Would even be possible to have a tri-fuel vehicle (petrol, LPG, CNG) using the same LPG injectors and ECU but with 2 gas reducers 2 gas tanks 1 petrol tank. I've thought about making a slow CNG compressor to hook up to home mains gas, should be able to make a very slow one for way less than the £couple grand.

Where do you fill up with CNG @CNG?

Would think the Magnus trucks are diesels with CNG supplemental fuelling systems? Can run a higher CNG:diesel mix than LPG:diesel mix. But there are many engines that use the same block for diesel or petrol application, different cylinder heads and fuelling systems obviously... though I doubt Volvo make truck engines capable of running on petrol. Have a listen for the diesel knock!

[Gilbertd]

Would think the Magnus trucks are diesels with CNG supplemental fuelling systems? Can run a higher CNG:diesel mix than LPG:diesel mix. But there are many engines that use the same block for diesel or petrol application, different cylinder heads and fuelling systems obviously... though I doubt Volvo make truck engines capable of running on petrol. Have a listen for the diesel knock!

They are on LNG not CNG if that makes any difference and it's a bit difficult to hear the diesel knock when I'm overtaking them on the M11........

[Brian_H]

I'm fairly sure they are LNG only, I've seen a few operated by John Lewis with 100% renewable fuel printed on them.

CNG fills at home using a compressor, hes said so on other posts.

[LPGC]

Ahh yes LNG not CNG... I don't know much at all about LNG but guess there isn't much difference to CNG and LPG following the reducer stage.

Found this which confirms trucks do run on 100% NG and it's renewable...
https://www.commercialfleet.org/news/tr ... g-stations.

CNG fills at home but thought he once (years ago) mentioned filling elsewhere with CNG produced from waste? Can cars fill up at sites mentioned in the link or just trucks?

[DodgeRover1]

I have a feeling there are a couple of public CNG fueling points but the lorries use private fueling points.
There was a CNG fueling poing from waste methane in Wales I think but it closed some years ago.
CNG tanks are mega heavy, you wouldn't want to be dragging one around if you weren't using it.
A CNG system that I could fill overnight at home with a supplemental LPG tank would be perfect for me - I rarely do more than 200 miles in a day so if I could manage that range on CNG it would be ideal. Being able to switch to LPG on longer journeys would allow me to longer trips without panicing about range.

[Brian_H]

Its the LNG tanks that are heavy, and expensive in comparison to CNG ones. Its the same gas either way, just a lot more pressure, CNG is still in gas state (compressed) LNG is liquid state. You'd use LNG in a HGV not CNG as you'd store more fuel in the same space, and the cost of the tank is eaiser to absorb in a HGV than a smaller vehicle. The Chive network does LNG though various truck stops dotted around, but I think there is/was only about 40 of those in total.

Gasrec at Daventry source theirs from landfill I think as well, I think they do both CNG and LNG filling. Its a minute or so off the m1 at junction 18. More info on their website > https://www.gasrec.co.uk/

[Brian_H]

Ahh yes LNG not CNG... I don't know much at all about LNG but guess there isn't much difference to CNG and LPG following the reducer stage.

Found this which confirms trucks do run on 100% NG and it's renewable...
https://www.commercialfleet.org/news/tr ... g-stations.

CNG fills at home but thought he once (years ago) mentioned filling elsewhere with CNG produced from waste? Can cars fill up at sites mentioned in the link or just trucks?

The thing is also - And I think this point is lost on most people, is that your burning a product that needs disposing of in some way (methane being a far more problematic greenhouse gas than CO2). So its got to go somewhere, which gives you the option of either just allowing it to disprerse into the atomosphere (obviously not good) Burning it to convert it into CO2 etc, or actually making use of it in the process of burning it. So its more sensible to acutally make some use out of it in the process of disposing of it. The same applies to LPG - its a by-product of petrol and diesel production so if it doesn't get used somehow, it will only end up getting flared off instead at some point to get rid of it.

[CNG]

Would even be possible to have a tri-fuel vehicle (petrol, LPG, CNG) using the same LPG injectors and ECU but with 2 gas reducers 2 gas tanks 1 petrol tank. I've thought about making a slow CNG compressor to hook up to home mains gas, should be able to make a very slow one for way less than the £couple grand.

Er... LPGC, Gilbert... certainly you've seen the pix. Why else have 1 x reducer 1 x Vaps bolted in. I gave it up because space is better used for Methane.

I can confirm: Google "GasRec and Chive". DIRRFT Daventry. Crewe and Wincanton fill CNG, and an outfit in Nottm also. Biogas via Landfill gets gas pumped into the National gas grid. Waitrose are billed by Gasrec, even if at take-off points, it's now the same as in your cooker. Waitrose certainly run LNG, and Tesco did run some CNG.

(Think) they still do? Because the gas is green at source, they get green 'brownie-points'. Chive's LNG sites don't have CNG.

If all you want is a simple single-point, this'll see you right... You get the hard to find OMVL 89e in the bargain, which is good...

Merc.png (314.27 KiB) Viewed 4531 times

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Mercedes-W124-E ... SwjBVcnPPk


Watch for tank expiry dates, put in an order for your MCH3 Coltri and off you go... but I warn. Big girl's Blouses, best not apply. Not for mincing about. All in, won't come cheap. You need to 'drive' for this.
[In my best 'Fluff Freeman'] "Sale ends soon" Oooorright?? Not Arf.

[DodgeRover1]

@CNG

Do you have a thread somewhere on what set up you have? I'm getting confused here between LNG and CNG I think, I was looking at what was described as factory CNG Crown Victorias in the States but they were talking 1000s of PSI in the tank and that along with the expiry date made me wonder.
The only other time I've come across CNG was in NZ but I'm sure the tanks used then were significantly heavier than LPG?
That compressor you referenced is for breathable air so you would hook up your household NG supply as the air intake for that?
It says a 10l bottle fill takes around 36mins so 100l in 360 minutes (so 6 hours ish?)
What do the running costs work out at, is your had supply for CNG already taxed as a road fuel or do you need to self declare like the early days of running on cooking oil?

For the sake of being visible on the internet forever we could be talking about a hypothetical off road vehicle if it helps

[CNG]

This soon becomes an extremely convoluted subject which would take hours to explain. It would simply provide a laundry-list of obstacles for those too idle to do this anyway. 'Big corporate' does it now. It's simply that here in the UK we don't - there's nothing underhand to any of it. The information for those with a work-ethic is easy to find. Nothing about any of this is easy, quick or cheap. Happy to help, however with all respect, for what you might undertake...

[LPGC]

Any luck finding any more CNG tanks @CNG? Might be worth buying that (in your Ebay Germany link) yourself for the extra tank and rare R89? Maybe if shipping wasn't 250Euros... Or I might have bought it and a car to install it on just for the experience of filling with CNG and running a vehicle on CNG - if I could fill at one of the places you mentioned or if I bought a CNG compressor (I think you mentioned your make and model compressor recently) to fill at home.

[DodgeRover1]

I can ask in the local breakers (in Surrey) what happened to the CNG tanks from the council ivecos they broke up if anybody is seriously interested? I'm assuming they will be long out of test now even if they are still say with other pressure vessels.

[CNG]

Minded to the fact that Mister LPGC, Sir, conversion side of things you've likely forgotten more than I know, your fascination with LPG over something shoved to your door borders on masochism? Is this a kink of yours?

Say it is?
It is, isn't it?

I've two R89 now, got them form Aussie of all places. These tanks are spec'ed for 20 years, then they're scrap. Freight is a bit dear, however I've sourced from all over when I've needed them. Freight is the killer. Tesco threw heaps of them, recently, as did Tenens. Merton Council's Minibus fleet went to a bloke, Arundel way. Iveco fit Faber. There's a decent drink if you point me to 2 x small and 1 x 'diddy' one fitted to those Iveco. However, date is likely an issue.