LPGTECH - Tech Adaption (algorithm)

[scottyf]

Hello All,
Can any one explain this to me. I have options as such to click the car from the front end kit into a so called "adaption" mode using the tech algorithm.

Now this gets rid of the multiplier and corrections at idle etc. Now I believe this system although it takes away a load of things air's on the side of rich rather than anything else. But I've used it the last couple of days without any issues.

As I say I think it runs on the rich side but is there any disadvantages to this or could i / should I just leave it on and let it Tune itself.

I know most people here don't use LPGTECH systems but any advice is greatly appreciated.
Or should I stick with manually tuning?

[LPGC]

My advice - Stick with the manual tuning, disable Tech mode.

Like you've said, you can't see the multiplier easily in tech mode and (like most other auto tuning systems) LPG Tech's autotune doesn't do a good job. I've fitted afew LPG Tech systems and sorted out a lot more.. I would never use the tech mode. When you switch back to normal mode, though, you'll have to do a full recal.

Simon

[scottyf]

What are your findings with it?
Thing is it should really be okay though surely it can't be that hard to get right?

I mean after all. You'll be doing a set number of things in your own head that you process to tune it correctly.
So why an auto cal can't do it I'll never know.

I'll switch back to manual at the weekend and have another go.

[scottyf]

Although what I have found is that the twinspark engine at higher rev's with partial throttle (Ie motorway) actually leans the mixture right down (Lean burn) where as the LPG doesn't allow for this too much. So I've noticed or least it feels to have more power in the mid to high rev's...

[hardcorepit80]

Now this gets rid of the multiplier and corrections at idle etc

You can only see it right after autocalibration, when you're in Tech algorithm.It disappear when you switch tabs.So you should correct your idle multiplier when autocal. is finished.

As I say I think it runs on the rich side but is there any disadvantages to this or could i / should I just leave it on and let it Tune itself.

When you're using adaptation mode, multiplier is set automatically for you base on maps.(you can get obd version and then your multiplier is corrected base on car ecu,stfl,ltft )
There're two different settings for adaptation, slow,fast, and slow ,fast auto-stop(I think..)
Which means:
-slow correction, after switch off car.
-fast, correction every couple of seconds.
-auto-stop, switches off when no correction needed.
Personally I use adaptation mode(slow), for over 2 years now and never had nay problems with the car(apart of some dodgy injectors...)

Or should I stick with manually tuning?

You can do a simple test, just drive for a couple of days with adaptation and then check maps and car stft,ltft.
Then set it up manually, drive for couple of days and check the same thing, see the results and use whatever is best for you.

Like you've said, you can't see the multiplier easily in tech mode and

Because you don't need to.... it's simplified...

LPG Tech's autotune doesn't do a good job.

Interesting.... I think it's brilliant

I've fitted afew LPG Tech systems and sorted out a lot more.. I would never use the tech mode.

Yeah... It just shows, that you have no idea what are you doing and maybe shouldn't install Tech's, because you've got no knowledge about it at all.
Just confusing people that need advice,with your theories...

[scottyf]

Hangabout it wasnt a slagging match I was after.

I dont have the obd stuff. So let's remove that from the equation.
The car runs on it perfectly. No issues.

However I believe its running a wee bit rich. This is just from the feel of the engine. This might not be an issue. I have a 1.6 ecu and map. Running a 1.8 engine. So if anything the fact it runs a little bit rich is probably a positive thing anyway. I always feel that on lpg that the top half of the rev range actually feels like its got more power than on petrol. Especially when it goes into open loop.

My question really was does it adjust the injector timings all the time to get the best possible map based on the lamda readings. Or does it just ignore those and just use a base curve.

[hardcorepit80]

My question really was does it adjust the injector timings all the time to get the best possible map based on the lamda readings.

Does not use lambda readings,
"Adaptation – automatic multiplier adjustment according to petrol map of injection times"
So if you use it, need run on petrol once in a while.

Better option is OBD2.

[scottyf]

So in order for it to do a decent job it needs a full petrol map in order to know what the multipler should be.

Why do none of these bits of software use the lamda readings. Its kind of what its there for.
If I git the obd but should I see a better increase in mpg from using lpg?

[Gilbertd]

They do use the lambda. Your petrol ECU is still controlling the mixture, your gas map is just correction factors. So if at a given revs and load the perol injectors need to be open for 10mS and the gas injectors need to be open for 14mS, then the gas map adds the extra 4mS. Get it wrong so it only adds 3mS, the lambda detects a weak mixture so the petrol ECU adjusts the short term fuel trim to make the petrol injector pulse 11mS instead. Get it very wrong and the petrol ECU runs out of adjustment and brings the MIL on.

[classicswede]

Correction off lambda readings can only work with stand alone systems that do not use the petrol injector pulse width to regulate LPG fueling.

The old version OBD corrections were rubbish and caused more problems than they were worth. The new ones are much better but using OBD in your case might not be the best thing.

The non OBD self correct can work but normally best off only running it for a few days and then just tidy it up a little and turn them off.

As you petrol ECU is the wrong one for the engine and by the sounds of it not fueling quite right on petrol you will not be wanting to make use of any of those types of corrections. You will be best off tweaking the map so it runs best and by the sounds of it you are not far off that already

[scottyf]

Oh yes sorry I forgot about the original map.
Like I say for me its probably not a bad thing that its running from feel a little bit rich.

Rather that than lean and risk burning out exhaust valves I guess.

Well the 1.6 ECU will run the 2.0. Believe the adjustments it makes are well within its tolerance. But as you say it won't be perfect anyway. Which is probably why I feel it runs that little bit sweeter at 4k on wards partial throttle as well as WOT.

The only thing that might be throwing it out is if the 1.6 spark ignition is that much different to say the 1.8
But then again even if the curve was more aggressive on timing advance LPG has a higher tolerance to pre-ignition so I am safe all round.


Not had any lights or engine management come on and still getting around 15% mpg loss so it can't be running that bad.

I just think partial load on the motorway say 80mph on petrol would throw up an engine light after prolonged time. Maybe because it tried to run too lean on the 1.6 vs a 1.8 cylinder. On Lpg it never does this.
I simply put it down to the mixture being too lean on petrol. Lpg compensates for this.

Interesting though. My car was always going to be a bit of a Frankenstein cobble...

[minimutly]

I'm sure you meant "70 mph on the motorway"
Huw

[scottyf]

Ha. But no. Everyone does 80. Even police acknowledge that.

[LPGC]

Hardcorespit - I haven't been on the forum for a while, been too busy. You got away lightly with your provocative comments! Everyone on this forum knows | know my stuff - and far far better than you. Will return to this thread when I have time.

[hardcorepit80]

I can't wait for your 10 pages essay.....