Possible LPG project - heater & BBQ

[Noo Noo]

hello all

I have a self build camper which I'm forever in the process of working on, doing up, modifying, building etc. It never ends....................

Anyway I'm thinking of installing a Propex heater in the van using an external tank under the floor. The van already runs on LPG for the engine and it works really well for me hence my decision for this set up for the extra heating.

My questions are:

Can I set up a spur off the tank so that I can use the seperate tank (for the heater) for a BBQ / cooker on the outside? Do I need anything special for this other than a BBQ point that they use on caravans.

2. Can I use the same filler point that I use for the engine set up to fill the second heater / BBQ tank? How do I do that if it's at all possible?

[LPGC]

Can I set up a spur off the tank so that I can use the seperate tank (for the heater) for a BBQ / cooker on the outside? Do I need anything special for this other than a BBQ point that they use on caravans.

A spur off the tank and a separate tank are two separate things... By a spur I take it you mean an extra outlet from the tank? Probably not, most likely you'd need a different design of tank that was made with this in mind, or at least a different design valve.

You could add a 'vapour take off second tank' and have this fill at the same time as you fill the existing engine tank (T the fill pipes together). This way you'd have one tank for the engine and one for the cooker / BBQ etc.

Another option, keep your existing tank, don't add a second tank, add a second purpose designed regulator which converts high ;pressure vapour (from your current reducer) to low pressure vapour (as used for BBQs cookers etc). However, we don't know what kind of LPG system is fitted to your engine - very likely the case that your engine has an LPG mixer type fuel system, in which case you might need to add two reducers - one reducer converts liquid propane from the feed to high pressure vapour, the other reducer converts the high pressure vappur to BBQ / cooker vapour pressure. For the second / third reducer method to be safe, there would also be a drain on the battery while you wanted to use the facility (reducers have an electronic controlled gas inlet shut-off solenoid - while you want to use the system, the solenoid would need to be kept open with power drain from the battery at around 1amp).

Simon

[Noo Noo]

thanks for the reply. I knew this would be a bit more complicated than I first thought, hence the questions.

firstly the camper runs on a PRINS system (I'll have to check exactly which one) but it's fitted to a VW 1.8 Turbo engine as you would find in an Audi TT, Golf Mk4 etc.

By spur I mean that I would fit the second tank but it will have the outlet connected to run the Propex heater and have another point for connecting a BBQ / cooker to it. I don't know if this is simply a T-piece fitted to the hose between the tank and heater or not. I'm not very educated in all the terminology for LPG to be honest.

The 'vapour take off second tank' sounds similar to what I had in mind. As far as using the original tank it sounds like it could be done but if I have one beef with the LPG system it is tank size and the range (when driving) that gives you / or doesn't...

[Gilbertd]

The system running your engine requires LPG in liquid form so the tank has an internal pickup tube to get liquid from the bottom of the tank whereas your cooker, etc needs a vapour feed so the take off would have to be at the top of the tank. Nothing to stop you filling the vapour tank from a T in the line from the filler as long as that tank has an 80% stop valve so you don't overfill it. You can get tanks specifically for this purpose.

[Noo Noo]

The system running your engine requires LPG in liquid form so the tank has an internal pickup tube to get liquid from the bottom of the tank whereas your cooker, etc needs a vapour feed so the take off would have to be at the top of the tank. Nothing to stop you filling the vapour tank from a T in the line from the filler as long as that tank has an 80% stop valve so you don't overfill it. You can get tanks specifically for this purpose.

I was thinking of using one of these

http://www.gasit.co.uk/index.php?_a=pro ... duct_id=14

Worse comes to worse I could add a separate filling point but my current one is tucked away nicely and cant be seen. It would be a bit tough but not impossible to find another nice little hidden spot again

[LPGC]

Another option along the lines of fitting another tank on this page http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/acatalog/Va ... -Kits.html . You would need the 'Emer vapour MV' along with a tank of your choosing and a regulator.

[Noo Noo]

Aren't these things the same thing?

http://www.gasit.co.uk/index.php?_a=pro ... duct_id=14

http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/acatalog/Va ... -Kits.html

sorry I'm struggling a bit with the terminology / requirements. I'll see if I can sketch something up to which people can add the detail and finer points that I'll need.

[Noo Noo]

here's a sketch of what I originally had in mind. Please add thoughts, comments, bits that are needed, specifications or burn at will

[rossko]

I can't think of any technical objections to a common filler - each tank will have a one-way valved inlet so that there can be no cross-feeding.
It doesn't seem very convenient though. The tendency for twin tanks, especially if non-identical, is for one to fill before the other. You'll almost certainly need to fill both to get the one you want full.

If the 80% fillstops are not 100% effective - and most will seep and rattle under full pressure applied for a long time (while the other tank is filled) - there is a chance you could eventually overfill say the heater tank after repeated road tank fills with no heater use, in the summer.

There may be convenience in having two fillers; theoretically you should fill the road fule tank with duty-paid 'autogas' fuel, but can use 'domestic' pump fuel in the hotel tank. The pumps fit different filler types, and adaptors can be used either way.

[Noo Noo]

Thanks Rossko

two fillers it is then. Not a massive issue. Anything you can see with the remainder of the set up?

[LPGC]

Aren't these things the same thing?

You need to scroll down the page I linked to a bit... Tanks at the top and middle of the page are effectively the same thing as the item you linked to. As said, see the 'Emer vapour MV' and standard vehicle engine supply toroidal tanks (both towards the bottom of the page)... The vapour MV effectively turns what we'd consider a normal vehicle engine liquid supply tank to a vapour supply tank, but of course you still need a regulator to lower the pressure of the vapour feed.

In your drawing (a quick Google didn't point me to your heater) doesn't the heater need a regulated pressure feed too or does it have a regulator built in? You don't want to get that bit wrong!

Simon

[Noo Noo]

You need to scroll down the page I linked to a bit... Tanks at the top and middle of the page are effectively the same thing as the item you linked to. As said, see the 'Emer vapour MV' and standard vehicle engine supply toroidal tanks (both towards the bottom of the page)... The vapour MV effectively turns what we'd consider a normal vehicle engine liquid supply tank to a vapour supply tank, but of course you still need a regulator to lower the pressure of the vapour feed.

In your drawing (a quick Google didn't point me to your heater) doesn't the heater need a regulated pressure feed too or does it have a regulator built in? You don't want to get that bit wrong!

Simon

Cheers. That makes sense.

here's a link to the heater I intend to fit along with another link that gave me the tank idea. I've also put a further link to the BBQ / cooker I want.

Propex heater
http://www.propexheatsource.co.uk/heate ... air-heater

underslung vapour tank
http://www.propexheatsource.co.uk/under ... pour-tanks

BBQ / cooker
http://www.amazon.co.uk/CADAC-Safari-Ch ... B000JUJMW8

[mat_fenwick]

That vapour MV looks very interesting - I was looking for such a thing a few years back (as I had a space single hole tank I wanted to use for a camper) but couldn't find one from a UK supplier. Ended buying a 4 hole tank from FES which to be fair meant I could get one that better fitted the available space, rather than making do.

[LPGC]

Tbh though, I can imagine it not giving vapour if you have a full tank and are parked at a certain angle... Then again I suppose any user will park a campervan on the flat lol...

Simon

[Noo Noo]

I'm quite lucky in that there's a fair bit of room under the van if I need it, plenty enough for a tank and the heater for sure. Figuring out all the terminology and bits I need is my biggest issue, before I even look at the exact detail of where to put filler points and stuff