Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

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Gilbertd
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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#81 Post by Gilbertd » Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:26 am

I've already explained it twice and you have a diagram, but I'll explain it again with the colours.

The injectors each have 2 wires going to them. One of these wires will be the same colour on every injector, this is the common 12V feed. This is the black wire on your injectors (don't ask me why Ford have used black as ignition switched live but they have on both the injectors and the ignition coil). Connect the red/white wire from the LPG loom to this wire on an injector (it doesn't matter which one even though the diagram shows it coming off the injector on cylinder 4). Just Tee into it.

Then, taking number 1 cylinder first, cut the other wire, the brn/blk. Connect the blue wire from the LPG loom to the cut end that goes to the injector and the blue/black from the LPG loom to the cut end that goes to the ECU.

Do the same with the other 3 injectors and the other 3 pairs of wires from the LPG loom. So on number 2, cut the brn/red wire and connect the red from the LPG loom to the cut end that goes to the injector and the red/black to the cut end that goes to the ECU.

Do the same on the remaining cylinders. You are interrupting the signal to the petrol injectors so when on petrol it runs normally but when on gas the LPG ECU interrupts the signal from the petrol ECU and uses it to fire the gas injectors instead.

Make sure that the LPG injectors feed the correct cylinders, so the one marked as A (on a ring around the wiring to the injector) feeds cylinder 1, B feeds cylinder number 2 and so on, just following the diagram.

If this is still too complicated for you, I'd offer to do it for you but I doubt you could afford my charges....
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

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Toolless
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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#82 Post by Toolless » Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:23 pm

Gilbertd wrote: and the blue/black from the LPG loom to the cut end that goes to the ECU.


Image

Gilbertd
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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#83 Post by Gilbertd » Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:44 pm

Toolless wrote:
Gilbertd wrote: and the blue/black from the LPG loom to the cut end that goes to the ECU.
Sorry I obviously didn't make that clear enough, and the blue/black from the LPG loom to the cut end that goes to the PETROL ECU
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'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

Toolless
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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#84 Post by Toolless » Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:21 pm

Image

of course if this is correct
I fail to see how that cylinder will ever fire again on petrol

Tornado1969
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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#85 Post by Tornado1969 » Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:12 pm

by looking at that ,
at a guess i would say. by going throu the lpg ecu.
when the car is running on petrol the lpg ecu connects those two wires to complete the circuit.
for that injector...
but when you switch over to gas..... it breaks the circuit. and stops the petrol injector from working. even if sent a signal from the petrol ecu.
cheers stuart....

Gilbertd
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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#86 Post by Gilbertd » Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:47 pm

Toolless wrote:of course if this is correct
I fail to see how that cylinder will ever fire again on petrol

Tornado1969 wrote:by looking at that ,
at a guess i would say. by going throu the lpg ecu.
when the car is running on petrol the lpg ecu connects those two wires to complete the circuit.
for that injector...
but when you switch over to gas..... it breaks the circuit. and stops the petrol injector from working. even if sent a signal from the petrol ecu.
Absolutely spot on. When running on petrol the LPG ECU connects the blue and blue/black wires together, when running on gas it disconnects them and uses the pulse from the petrol ECU on the blue/black wire to fire the gas injector instead.

The LPG system doesn't switch the petrol ECU off, it just uses it's output to fire the gas injectors instead of the petrol ones.

Simple, even a child should be able to understand it!
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

Toolless
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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#87 Post by Toolless » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:41 pm

Tornado1969 wrote:by looking at that ,
at a guess i would say. by going throu the lpg ecu.
when the car is running on petrol the lpg ecu connects those two wires to complete the circuit.
for that injector...
but when you switch over to gas..... it breaks the circuit. and stops the petrol injector from working. even if sent a signal from the petrol ecu.


I see then, there is a switch inside the LPG ECU to do this
But what about if the LPG ECU is switched off
And I mean completely switched off with the live battery wire disconected or even the fuse taken out as it is in my case then what will happen to the petrol injectors

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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#88 Post by Gilbertd » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:53 pm

If the battery is disconnected, your car won't run on petrol LPG or anything else for that matter!

Inside the LPG ECU is a relay that is energised when running on gas and not when running on petrol, so if there is no power to the LPG ECU, the fail safe is that it will still run on petrol. Otherwise, if, due to dodgy wiring (of which it seems you will have plenty) the LPG ECU fuse blows, the car wouldn't run on either fuel. If the LPG system fuse blows, the car will still run on petrol.
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

Toolless
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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#89 Post by Toolless » Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:32 pm

I have now wire up all 4 of the injectors as explained in the last few schematics
And I can understand why all 4 cylenders fire
Yes it true but the engine dose run!

So I guess thats the electrics all done and out of the way (apart from a new switch)
So thanks for you help this far

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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#90 Post by john_d » Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:35 pm

just cause it runs on petrol doesnt mean it will run on gas.

when you get the switch wired up that will be the real test.
Subaru Impreza WRX

Toolless
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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#91 Post by Toolless » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:11 am

john_d wrote:when you get the switch wired up that will be the real test.


Its not just that its the hydraulics as well
Need fuel and heater hose which I'm about to order
When it arives LOL and I have tried to fit it I will then post back
Within the next week anyway

All the best
And many Thanks
Toolless

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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#92 Post by john_d » Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:26 am

Toolless wrote:Its not just that its the hydraulics as well


you mean the plumbing side?

dare i say that basic common sense :lol:

aslong as you make sure you secure the COP is followed it should'nt be too bad.
Subaru Impreza WRX

Toolless
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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#93 Post by Toolless » Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:55 pm

Well my hoses have arrived
I plumbed the heater matrix up last night and so far so good
But the fuel hose Im not quite sure of now as the hydraulic shop doubted it

I cant see it on there web site
But what is the working pressure of there hoses

http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKE ... E%2067/110

Thanks
Toolles

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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#94 Post by rossko » Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:11 pm

Toolless wrote:But the fuel hose Im not quite sure of now as the hydraulic shop doubted it

Which fuel hose? The requirements are different for pipework to and from the tank, which carries liquid, and for low pressure vapour hoses, to and from the injectors.
We've been through all this, told you where to source the correct stuff, and pointed out that if you use the wrong stuff you may die (please do not kill anyone else though).

Toolless wrote:I cant see it on there web site

Whose web site?

Toolless wrote:But what is the working pressure of there hoses

As described on the Parker page you link to, that is LOW PRESSURE HOSE. It is E67 marked and suitable for use on the vapour side of teh system.

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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#95 Post by Toolless » Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:35 pm

The ebay add said it was suitable for LPG liquid and when it arrived and I saw it I wondered for a bit then started to question it
Looks like it will have to go back to where it came from

Bought some 8mm copper pipe from the pluming merchant today
Not keep on copper as the last lot off the car I took it off just kinked and broke and was useless
Cant get any 6mm copper pipe from them as the old stuff from the tank to the vaporizer was 6mm
The thread from the outlet of the tank and the inlet of the vaporizer seems to be 1/8 BSP
and I cant find any fittings for 1/8 bsp to 8mm pipe
Why they did not just use 1/4 thread I dont know

Also
After I have sorted the above I'm going to start drilling on my inlet manifold of my engine for my screws to go into from the gas lpg
And was wondering how you think my engine would run with 4 x 5mm holes in my inlet manifold for a few days until I get them threaded


Thanks
Toolless

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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#96 Post by Gilbertd » Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:36 pm

FFS, here we go again.....
Toolless wrote:The ebay add said it was suitable for LPG liquid and when it arrived and I saw it I wondered for a bit then started to question it
Looks like it will have to go back to where it came from
If they will take cut lengths of pipe back.....
Toolless wrote:Bought some 8mm copper pipe from the pluming merchant today
Not keep on copper as the last lot off the car I took it off just kinked and broke and was useless
Cant get any 6mm copper pipe from them as the old stuff from the tank to the vaporizer was 6mm
Even if you could, it wouldn't be any good. Just as the 8mm stuff you have bought is no good. You were told not to buy central heating microbore pipe from a plumbers merchant so you go out and buy central heating microbore pipe from a plumbers merchant. The correct pipe must be plastic sheathed copper, 6mm for your install. You were given links to where you could buy the correct stuff so rather than messing about with eBay and a plumbers merchants, why haven't you just ordered the proper stuff from Tinley Tech or WTV? You would have had everything you needed in one parcel the next day.
Toolless wrote:The thread from the outlet of the tank and the inlet of the vaporizer seems to be 1/8 BSP
and I cant find any fittings for 1/8 bsp to 8mm pipe
Why they did not just use 1/4 thread I dont know
It isn't 1/8 BSP, it's metric. All the fittings are metric because the kit is made in Italy (as you have already been told, but you've chosen to ignore that too). Tinley Tech will supply you with the fittings as well as the pipe, and they'll know what you are talking about, unlike your plumbers merchant....
Toolless wrote:Also
After I have sorted the above I'm going to start drilling on my inlet manifold of my engine for my screws to go into from the gas lpg
And was wondering how you think my engine would run with 4 x 5mm holes in my inlet manifold for a few days until I get them threaded
It won't. Why not do what everyone else does? Take the manifold off, drill it, tap it and fit the nipples. Then put it back on and connect it to your injectors with the flexible low pressure LPG hose that Tinley Tech will by then have supplied you with?
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

Tornado1969
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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#97 Post by Tornado1969 » Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:52 pm

Gilbertd wrote: Why not do what everyone else does? Take the manifold off, drill it, tap it and fit the nipples. Then put it back on and connect it to your injectors with the flexible low pressure LPG hose that Tinley Tech will by then have supplied you with?


because Gilbertd it seems by reading the thread tooless likes to do the opposite to what people tell him and do everything the hard way.
cheers stuart....

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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#98 Post by rossko » Sat Aug 07, 2010 2:00 am

Toolless wrote:The ebay add said it was suitable for LPG liquid

No, the ebay add you showed us doesn't say that; and you were told not to buy it. Your scrimping is costing you money here, wise up.

I simply don't believe your claims that you break copper pipe. You have to try quite hard to kink this stuff, never mind flexing it to and fro to break it afterwards, even when its old and work hardened.

You're going to have to go to an LPG specialist supplier sooner or later to get a replacement for the tank plastic vapour box you smashed, how's sourcing that going?

How about the dashboard switch, without which it simply won't work? And the plug for it that got cut off and lost, turned up yet? If you don't resolve this one you're wasting a lot of effort.

Insurers happy with you doing this job ? (If only they knew, eh)

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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#99 Post by Gilbertd » Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:30 pm

demonicwillow wrote:think of the people you could hurt when your car explodes in the supermarket carpark
That's highly unlikely. The chances of this car ever being driven as far as a supermarket car park, or anywhere else for that matter, are pretty remote......
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

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john_d
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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#100 Post by john_d » Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:59 pm

i think he got it running and is just toying with us :mrgreen:
Subaru Impreza WRX

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