Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

Message
Author
Gilbertd
Advanced Member
Posts: 7983
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:00 am
Location: Peterborough

Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#221 Post by Gilbertd » Fri May 09, 2014 7:20 pm

I don't think anyone ever worked out who he was. He never went anywhere near an LPG installer, everything he had came from the scrappy or the tractor shop. By now he's probably blown himself up anyway......
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

sijones
Intermediate Member
Posts: 917
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:32 am
Location: Ellesmere Port

Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#222 Post by sijones » Sat May 10, 2014 1:00 pm

R.I.P Toolless....

LPGC
Installer
Posts: 3208
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:01 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#223 Post by LPGC » Sun May 11, 2014 11:11 pm

The name tool-less does give the impression he had a previous injury :lol:
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240

SnoozyBMW
New member
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:38 pm

Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#224 Post by SnoozyBMW » Tue May 13, 2014 9:25 am

Toolless wrote:
Gilbertd wrote: So the top of the multivalve is at the top. Get it wrong and your fuel gauge will read backwards, it'll never fill from empty because when it's empty the valve will think it's full and not allow you to put any in.
What are you talking about!
it is at the top
Whats all this about turn it at a 30 degree angle now it just sounds like a load of twaddle
Man a life!

Think I will just pop in to town tomorrow and put a fivers worth in the tank and see what happens
rossko wrote:You might like to sort out the smashed/melted vapour box before you go to too much trouble with the tank alignment.
Nar nar nar
Morisons shopping bag
What exactly do you mean Morrisons shopping bag??!

Ignorant people such as yourselves go a long way to validating the arguement that diy installs should be against the law.

User avatar
john_d
Site Admin
Posts: 1555
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:12 pm
Location: Cardenden, Fife

Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#225 Post by john_d » Tue May 13, 2014 9:38 am

Don't wait for a reply ;)
Subaru Impreza WRX

LPGC
Installer
Posts: 3208
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:01 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#226 Post by LPGC » Tue May 13, 2014 1:04 pm

SnoozyBMW wrote: Ignorant people such as yourselves go a long way to validating the arguement that diy installs should be against the law.
john_d wrote:Don't wait for a reply ;)
It was 4 years ago Snoozy, he seems to be long gone now! :lol:

There are a lot of ignorant people doing all types of work on cars etc - should we ban home mechanics changing their own brake pads too? I don't think a 'closed shop' situation, where only qualified people can work on LPG systems, would be a great situation for anyone but I agree something should be done to get all new LPG installs checked.

For a start, banning DIYers fitting their own system would be un-enforceable unless a change in the law was made. There is no legal requirement for anyone to submit any LPG converted vehicle (newly installed or existing install) for any test of any kind. There is a lot of confusion and misinformation on this, especially regarding COP11 and UKLPG. COP11 is only a 'code of practice', the code of practice was written by a trade body (LPGA / UKLPG) as a simple to understand means of achieving the standard that should be achieved according to law. The actual standard that should be achieved according to law is the BS standard that is concerned with LPG fuel systems on vehicles. But there is no law to say that a converted vehicle has to be checked against that standard or checked by anyone at all. To me it seems shocking that the trade body (UKLPG) that supposedly exists to make LPG installs on vehicles safer does nothing to ensure that converted vehicles on it's database have LPG listed as fuel type on the V5 - Surely the fire brigade would like to know when they approach a vehicle on fire if the vehicle has an LPG install? I have no confidence in UKLPG, they seem unable or unwilling to address LPG install safety even on those installs carried out or checked by their members. On another forum thread I have said how some UKLPG members accept payment over the phone for registering vehicles on UKLPG's database, without having ever set eyes on the vehicle that they are registering... a nice little earner for both UKLPG and their members who are involved! I have suggested a common sense scheme that could be implemented easily by government as opposed to any private profit making trade body that might have it's own profit interests at heart rather than safety. I suggested that every converted vehicle should be listed with LPG fuel type on the logbook, by law, and that the only way to get LPG listed as a fuel type on the logbook is via an MOT test on every newly converted vehicle. Granted an MOT tester will not know quite as much about the specifics of LPG installs, but neither will they about the electrical safety of hybrid vehicles etc. An MOT tester is at least used to working on vehicles, knows if components are properly secured, are used to working on hydraulic systems, common sense will tell them that orange caravan hose isn't suitable and if common sense doesn't tell them the information could be provided to them in the normal way that MOT testers receive updates on new regulations. The only information any update need necessarily contain is 'all LPG system components should have E67 stamped on them'.

There are many DIYers who do a good job when installing DIY kits under guidance from DIY kit suppliers like myself. Some seem to do better installs than some pro LPG installers, whether the pros are UKLPG members or not. There are pictures of bad installs done by pros on this forum, some of those installs have been done by UKLPG members, some have supposedly been 'approved' by UKLPG members. A good amateur install might conform fully to spec, a bad pro install might be unsafe. Let common sense prevail!

The thread on this forum I refer to is the 'UKLPG Comments' thread...

Simon
www.Lpgc.co.uk
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240

kbs
Junior Member
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:38 pm

Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#227 Post by kbs » Tue May 13, 2014 1:47 pm

I don't understand the shopping bag or the 'nar'. Is this because I'm a thick Southern farmer?
Is this a local thing? - I know Morrisons are popular up North - perhaps its a Northern advert that thick Southerners can't understand ?
Does it mean anything to anyone on here?

Great thread - would love to recreate it - but would also like to live.

LPGC
Installer
Posts: 3208
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:01 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#228 Post by LPGC » Tue May 13, 2014 3:10 pm

kbs wrote:I don't understand the shopping bag or the 'nar'. Is this because I'm a thick Southern farmer?
Is this a local thing? - I know Morrisons are popular up North - perhaps its a Northern advert that thick Southerners can't understand ?
Does it mean anything to anyone on here?

Great thread - would love to recreate it - but would also like to live.
I don't know where Toolless was from, there could be some hidden colloquial meaning... But I think it more likely that what he meant was... Instead of repairing the valve's gas tight housing properly he would instead use a Morrisons shopping bag around the valve to try to effect a seal around the valve and pipe vents.

We see a lot of multivalves 'protected' from the elements like this when fitted externally, but it wouldn't be safe on an internal install where the valve should be sealed inside a gas tight enclosure, so that any any leak or tank venting is externally vented rather than vented inside the vehicle. Purpose designed valve protection covers are designed for tanks that are fitted externally but not always fitted, but not a safety issue when the tank is external.

Simon
Lpgc
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240

SnoozyBMW
New member
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:38 pm

Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#229 Post by SnoozyBMW » Tue May 13, 2014 10:27 pm

And do you honestly believe a professional installer would ever use a morrisons shopping bag to effect a repair??!

I know you're not a registered installer Simon and so have more sympathy with the DIY brigade. The old brake pads argument always comes about from the DIYers when considering LPG installation.

Anyways I made my thoughts clear on the UKLPG thread; it is a failing of UKLPG that they have not properly regulated LPG installation in the UK.

classicswede
Installer
Posts: 2583
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:56 pm
Location: North Wales
Contact:

Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#230 Post by classicswede » Wed May 14, 2014 9:14 am

And once a system has been correctly installed how would you expect the likes of toolless messing around with at a later date?
http://www.classicswede.com/
http://www.classicswede.co.uk/LPG/cat17 ... 10800.aspx

LPG installer Anglesey North Wales

DIY LPG Kits

07824887160

LPGC
Installer
Posts: 3208
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:01 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#231 Post by LPGC » Wed May 14, 2014 10:57 am

SnoozyBMW wrote:And do you honestly believe a professional installer would ever use a morrisons shopping bag to effect a repair??!

I know you're not a registered installer Simon and so have more sympathy with the DIY brigade. The old brake pads argument always comes about from the DIYers when considering LPG installation.

Anyways I made my thoughts clear on the UKLPG thread; it is a failing of UKLPG that they have not properly regulated LPG installation in the UK.
Snoozy...

I have seen pro installers use Moririsons shopping bags in an attempt to protect multi-valves from the elements when the tank is installed exterenally - Not something I would do myself but not a safety issue on an external tank. Some installers use proper valve covers on external tanks, some don't fit any cover whatsover, some have used Morrisons shopping bags (particularly in the past). Of course this would be a safety issue on an internal tank.

There is no such thing as a registered installer! No installer is a 'registered installer'! Registered with whom exactly? You're talking about being a member of a private, profit making trade body that has a farcical impact on LPG system safety and which isn't endorsed by the government aren't you? I can make a phone call and get vehicles registered on that trade body's 'database', and so can DIYers.. Farcical but making profit!

If the point about brake pads comes up often, how come people are shy to answer it? Do we stop all DIY repairs on vehicles or not? If you want to prevent safety issues from DIYers occurring, where would you draw the line? Brakes are one of the most important safety aspects of any vehicle, probably much more important than any aspect of any LPG system install... If you're not going to comment on brake pads, how about people changing petrol pipes or petrol tanks on their own vehicles?
classicswede wrote:And once a system has been correctly installed how would you expect the likes of toolless messing around with at a later date?
Another good point... Would you stop Toolless and all other vehicle owners from doing any work whatsoever on their own vehicle? You cannot make a rule saying people can mess with any part of their vehicle except the LPG system. People like Toolless could simply argue they didn't know that a particular component on their vehicle was even part of the LPG system. The law says any work should be carried out by competent persons. Clearly Toolless isn't competent. When people buy a kit from me I state 'Tech support will be given but you are expected to be competent to do the work'. If Toolless had bought a kit from the likes of myself or Dai his incompetence would have become clear and we could insist that some arrangement be made so that we could finish the job... But I suppose Toolless could always come on this forum and get tech support from installers who do not sell kits! I wasn't one of the pros on this forum who was 'helping' Toolless with advice that was repeatedly ignored.. Some pros on the forum almost drawed the line with Toolless, but never actually did draw the line. We can laugh at the thread and I can see the point of installers whom 'helped' Toolless - he was adamant he was going to proceed with or without their comments so better with their comments - but on the other hand it could be said that installers enjoyed the thread and, given Toolless arrogance and lack of competence only prolonged the bodge of an installation. There are some installers on this forum who advice people to buy parts directly from suppliers and are happy to do all tech support via this forum, without knowing that persons competence, without setting any boundaries. Me and Dai are not among those installers! We do give some tech support on the forum for free but we don't advise people to buy kits etc from suppliers. We sell kits ourselves and have facility for people to bring their vehicle in for hands on tech support / advice on where to fit components / a check of the work after the install etc. You even give tech support on this forum yourself but don't sell kits and don't seem to offer DIYers facility for bringing vehicles in for tech support! Which type of installer is most guilty of assisting none-pro's to do a possibly unsafe install? If you think DIY work should not be done - why don't you only use this forum for discussion with other pros - there is an 'installers area' - You need not get involved with commenting on people's LPG problems. When you comment trying to help people fix their own vehicles you are helping and encouraging them to do DIY work!

Simon
www.Lpgc.co.uk
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240

kbs
Junior Member
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:38 pm

Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#232 Post by kbs » Wed May 14, 2014 1:02 pm

My first LPG car in the 80's - my only local filling station was Avonmouth. You could not fill the car yourself - their operator had to do it.

Some regs must be coming given whats happened in the 'gas safe' world and the lack of availability of gas heating parts to anyone who doesn't promise to apply a 300% mark up before selling/fitting it to/for the general public.

Almost as bad as the 'Your Contractor is safe/approved' Bulls**t that sucked money from me for no valid reason. They even gave a kick-back to the comapny that told me I needed to be part of the irrelavent scheeme.

Dishonest, self promoting, theiveing scum hiding behind heath&safety - whilst offering no heath& safety improvements or measurements (and extorting money from honest working people) are become more and more prevelant in the UK.

Hope UKLPG don't allow greed to lead them down this route.

Rant over, blood pressure returning to normal - glad guns are illegal.

rossko
Installer
Posts: 8094
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 6:51 pm
Location: Wiltshire

Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#233 Post by rossko » Wed May 14, 2014 3:52 pm

squeak ... squeak ... (the sound of hobbyhorse wheels being ridden around)
www.blazegas.com

kbs
Junior Member
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:38 pm

Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#234 Post by kbs » Wed May 14, 2014 8:25 pm

Creak (sound of soap box being climbed).
Rattle (sound of glasses frames as facial twitch returns).
Whinge/whine/bore (as I realise I no longer like, belong to or recognise this world - but perhaps I never did).

Keep smiling as they bend you over and rip you off. Its better than letting them know that you know what is causing that invasive pain in your rear.

Or from their point of view - I am that irritating pain in the rear and I hope I continue to be long after my money runs out.

carl0s
Member
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:40 pm
Location: Manchester, England, UK.
Contact:

Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#235 Post by carl0s » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:24 pm

"Beevor is somewhat naive"

No ducking kidding.

http://www.cwherald.com/a/archive/man-b ... 18586.html

(name from one of his photobucket pictures). The previous picture is a rough looking white van too as it happens!
http://s291.photobucket.com/user/Batist ... ort=3&o=19

also http://www.cwherald.com/a/archive/no-te ... 24595.html

also, http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=720988 ("well known troll")
username from his photobucket.

All a bit late I spose :)
--
Carl
BMW E60 545i automatic, KME Nevo Pro (was Stag 300 Premium), Hana, KME Gold.
BMW E46 330i automatic on Zavoli Zeta-S/AEB/PANs

carl0s
Member
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:40 pm
Location: Manchester, England, UK.
Contact:

Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#236 Post by carl0s » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:42 pm

Hey... we have moderators here after all? :D
--
Carl
BMW E60 545i automatic, KME Nevo Pro (was Stag 300 Premium), Hana, KME Gold.
BMW E46 330i automatic on Zavoli Zeta-S/AEB/PANs

User avatar
john_d
Site Admin
Posts: 1555
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:12 pm
Location: Cardenden, Fife

Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#237 Post by john_d » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:57 pm

carl0s wrote:Hey... we have moderators here after all? :D

Correct
Subaru Impreza WRX

carl0s
Member
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:40 pm
Location: Manchester, England, UK.
Contact:

Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#238 Post by carl0s » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:28 am

john_d wrote:
carl0s wrote:Hey... we have moderators here after all? :D

Correct
;)

Sorry for the swearing. Although I'm sure I read the same word a few pages back!!
--
Carl
BMW E60 545i automatic, KME Nevo Pro (was Stag 300 Premium), Hana, KME Gold.
BMW E46 330i automatic on Zavoli Zeta-S/AEB/PANs

LPGC
Installer
Posts: 3208
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:01 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#239 Post by LPGC » Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:50 am

So do you reckon Tollless was an internet troll, here to have a laugh and wind people up?

Simon
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240

User avatar
john_d
Site Admin
Posts: 1555
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:12 pm
Location: Cardenden, Fife

Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#240 Post by john_d » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:21 pm

as this is probably the best thread on the board, it is now a sticky so it will never be forgotten :)
Subaru Impreza WRX

Post Reply