Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

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tommo2009
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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#21 Post by tommo2009 » Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:42 pm

Why go through all the hassle of connecting into the ECU when the lambda and coil pack are easily accessible from under the bonnet.
Especially when the next question is going to be which pins is it on the ECU!!

Toolless
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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#22 Post by Toolless » Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:51 pm

OK have now done some measuring and The fuel hose from the injectors to the inlet manifold is 3/16"
So therefor these screws above are 5mm as said before
Cant find my fela gauge so I don't know what kind of thread those pipe fitting are
But Normal pipe thread is BSP as I cant see them being metric coerce

I now plan on plumbing from the tank to the vaporizer and last bits from the injectors with 3/16 rubber flexible gas hose unless I hear any objection as the copper brake fluid pipe was @!##
It kinked in about 5 places and of coerce broken

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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#23 Post by Toolless » Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:06 am

tommo2009 wrote:Why go through all the hassle of connecting into the ECU when the lambda and coil pack are easily accessible from under the bonnet.
Especially when the next question is going to be which pins is it on the ECU!!


Image
Image
Hear are the wires you said from under the bonnet
Can you tell which ones are for the LPG ECU and injector?
One would presume the wires that go to the cars injector also join to go to the system

And what goes on hear; and no its not the inlet from the vaporizer its too samll
Image

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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#24 Post by rossko » Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:44 am

Toolless wrote:But Normal pipe thread is BSP as I cant see them being metric coerce

If we are talking the nipples to screw into the manifold (its not entirely clear) - of course they are metric, have you worked out where this stuff was made yet? Ordinary M6 thread.

Toolless wrote:I now plan on plumbing from the tank to the vaporizer and last bits from the injectors with 3/16 rubber flexible gas hose

Once again you are on the path to self-destruction. Do not ever use barbeque hose for liquid propane. (You may recall how it went the last time you hooked orange hose up to an autogas tank)

Tank-to-front carries liquid at up to 25 bar : use 6mm copper pipe (no you can't use brake piping or central heating microbore, it needs to be sheathed in PVC) or use purpose made semi-rigid plastic pipe marked for LPG to E67 standards.

If you keep trying to bodge this job, you may die. Hopefully you never carry passengers in your car.

Injectors to manifold carries low pressure gas, bits of orange hose would actually work for a short while. They would soon perish though, not being intended for use in a hot oily engine bay environment. Use the correct rubbery hose at 6 or 5mm bore which is marked for LPG to E67 standards. Propane gas will eat water hose, before you ask.

If you don't use the correct stuff, you car won't pass inspection. Have you asked your insurers yet whether you will need to have it inspected? Or do you not bother with insurance?

Toolless wrote:And what goes on hear; and no its not the inlet from the vaporizer its too samll

Somewhere you had a pressure sensor with dual connections, one goes to manifold vacuum ... the other goes to the pressurised gas supply. That's what its for. No, don't use orange hose yada yada, use 4mm bore correctly marked LPG hose.

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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#25 Post by Gilbertd » Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:02 am

Presumably you also replace brake hoses with a bit of garden hosepipe and a couple of Jubilee clips? You have to use stuff that is intended for the job you are expecting it to do. Are you really as stupid as you seem?

The kit is made in Italy, they wouldn't know a BSP thread if it leapt out and bit them, of course everything is metric!

Why are you so interested in the cars wiring? You have the LPG ECU with it's loom. You just connect the wire that needs to go to the lambda sensor to the lambda sensor, the wire that goes to the Throttle position sensor to the throttle position sensor, the wires that go to the injectors to the injectors and so on. You have the installation diagram, just use it FFS!
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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#26 Post by john_d » Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:16 am

Toolless wrote:Can you tell which ones are for the LPG ECU and injector?


the petrol injector loom can be removed, you will also have to remove the cam sensor plug, iscv plug and tps plug as they are all on the same loom, just unplug them, follow the loom along and you should see where it meets the main loom.
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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#27 Post by Toolless » Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:57 pm

rossko wrote:Once again you are on the path to self-destruction. Do not ever use barbeque hose for liquid propane. (You may recall how it went the last time you hooked orange hose up to an autogas tank)


What about my propane bottle for my heating dose that not come out as a liquid when it reaches the jets that burn it
It dose however have a regulator on it; dose this turn the pressure down so it comes out as a gas after it
Off coerce i could always take my gas hose to a hydraulic shop get the barb fitting there and have them crimped up in a crimping machine using feral

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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#28 Post by rossko » Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:13 pm

Clearly I'm wasting my time ; just please, don't involve anyone else in your catastrophe.

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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#29 Post by Gilbertd » Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:20 pm

Toolless wrote:What about my propane bottle for my heating dose that not come out as a liquid when it reaches the jets that burn it
No, it comes from the top of the cylinder as gas. An LPG tank to go in a car has a pick up tube inside it so it draws liquid LPG from the bottom of the tank. For the same reason, the red bottles used in LPG powered fork lift trucks have a big arrow on them to shown which way is up as they also have a tube inside to pick up liquid from the bottom of the tank.

Orange gas hose is for gas vapour only, not liquid at high pressure.

If you are going to carry on ignoring everything you'ver been told, I feel sorry for anyone living anywhere near you. Who knows what the blast radius will be when you first try and fire up your cobbled together deathtrap. Either get your wallet out and buy the correct pipe and fittings or try something safer. Why not build yourself a hang glider out of secondhand bin liners and garden canes? It will be just as safe and will only damage you.
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#30 Post by Toolless » Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:37 pm

Marked in red is the Map sensor and that small brass pipe fitting on the injector
The map sensor has 2 pipes connected to it one says pressure and the other an arrow one would presume vacuum
I connect the one that says pressure to my injectors right?
Where marked in yellow is this the point I connect my vac hose to?
Image

Regarding the fuel hose I can't work with the cooper stuff
It keeps kinking and braking and is no good

As regards to coding and bogging with my own gas hose then please take a look at this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/8mm-Propane-Butan ... 2306a1fb91

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/6-3mm-Propane-But ... 4838b27ec1

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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#31 Post by john_d » Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:53 pm

get some faro/poly pipe

from tinley

or

autogas

change from £20 in both cases

bargin
Subaru Impreza WRX

Toolless
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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#32 Post by Toolless » Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:05 pm

works out per met
ebay 8mm 2.10
Tinleys 4mm 3.94
auto gas 8mm 2.75

Will any of the above stuff do for the injectors to the inlet manifold?

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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#33 Post by john_d » Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:07 pm

but the ebay stuff is no good for car lpg.

and to be honest your talking pennies.
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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#34 Post by Toolless » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:09 pm

john_d wrote:but the ebay stuff is no good for car lpg.

and to be honest your talking pennies.



Well the ebay stuff dose say 'Suitable for use on LPG and Natural Gas Maximum working pressure 25 bar '

That stuff from auto gas
Am I better doing from the tank to vaporizer with 8mm or 6mm pipe
Do you think the 6mm pipe would be OK for the injectors to engine even though its 5mm

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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#35 Post by john_d » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:12 pm

it is'nt COP11 compliant.

tank to vap. 6mm

you need different hose/pipe for the injectors.
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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#36 Post by Gilbertd » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:15 pm

Toolless wrote:Marked in red is the Map sensor and that small brass pipe fitting on the injector
The map sensor has 2 pipes connected to it one says pressure and the other an arrow one would presume vacuum
I connect the one that says pressure to my injectors right?
Where marked in yellow is this the point I connect my vac hose to?
To the right of the bit you marked in yellow is a vacuum hose coming off the plenum chamber, just put a T piece in it and come off there. To find out how to connect the pipes, why don't you read the bloody manual???

Toolless wrote:Regarding the fuel hose I can't work with the cooper stuff
It keeps kinking and braking and is no good

As regards to coding and bogging with my own gas hose then please take a look at this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/8mm-Propane-Butan ... 2306a1fb91

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/6-3mm-Propane-But ... 4838b27ec1
Yes, look what the ads say, suitable for LPG gas. Gas, not liquid FFS!!!!

Buy the proper plastic coated copper or Faro pipe, 6mm will be quite sufficient for your gutless little Ford engine and if the injectors need 5mm hose, buy 5mm hose. The pipe from the tank to the vaporiser must be rigid, the pipes from the injectors to the nozzles must be flexible and all pipes must be marked as meeting the standard for LPG installations in motor vehicles. If it didn't run to about 12 pages, I'd post up the complete text of the code of practice. You'll be laughed off the planet when you take this thing to be safety tested (if it ever makes it that far without bursting into flames). I do suppose you are aware that the pipe runs must be no closer than 300mm from any part of the exhaust system and must be visible along their full run?
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#37 Post by Toolless » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:14 pm

I have found that manual
Image

All I could see as far as a wiring schematic was this

Hear are the actual wire from my LPG kit
Image
Image

The colors are not the same it just dose not make sence

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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#38 Post by john_d » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:33 pm

are you sure its the same "manual" for the kit you have?
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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#39 Post by Toolless » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:09 pm

john_d wrote:are you sure its the same "manual" for the kit you have?


rossko wrote:You need (really need) to get hold of the Dream XXI-N installation manual, which will answer most of your questions.

Here's a Zavoli one
http://www.zavoli.com/upload/manuali/en_file_7.pdf
which is practically identical to the OMVL system (all electronics from same maker, AEB) and includes a lot of good advice.

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Re: Doing the LPG conversion; My full report

#40 Post by john_d » Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:36 am

Clueless wrote:
rossko wrote:Here's a Zavoli one
http://www.zavoli.com/upload/manuali/en_file_7.pdf
which is practically identical to the OMVL system (all electronics from same maker, AEB) and includes a lot of good advice.


its not that hard, the colour didnt match on mine but i got it running no problem, its a matter of common sense when you see the colours of the wires
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