lpg feed pipe size on 500 bhp engine.

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LPGC
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Re: lpg feed pipe size on 500 bhp engine.

#161 Post by LPGC » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:00 pm

As memory serves, I think there was a bit of a consensus earlier in the thread that smaller venturis might be necessary.
But might be worth blowing air from an airline past reducer openings to see how that effects mixture, with someone's help you could do test under a bit of engine load by holding the car on the brakes while loading up the torque converter.
Also worth mentioning that if the R90s are newer spec they might not be as signal sensitive as older spec R90s.
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robertXX
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Re: lpg feed pipe size on 500 bhp engine.

#162 Post by robertXX » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:18 pm

Earlier r90s.


Well,

i had a bit of a thrash yesterday ,4.30 pm i started with this ..



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a hunk of nylony type of thing ,and after a bit of drilling and turning and hacksawing off 12 rings , then bellmouthing them ,by 630 pm i got these ..


Image


12 , 25mm id mixer ring restrictors .




finished fettling them at 9pm , then this morning i put them on the flowbench to see what they flow ...


firstly i stuck a retaining screw in there so the monster flowbench from hell did not suck my ring right off !

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then taped it on ..


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flow was better than i expected...

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slid the rings home , they were a nice push fit in the inlets .


so jumped in the car ,and went for my test drive , was definately much richer ,however , got about 3 miles down the rd ,and hit a bump , and instantly got a lot of vibration from the back of the car .

pulled over ,and had a look around , and found the staked transit uj cups on the prop had come free and were pretty much right out and off away to uj heaven !

POX.


V came with a hammer , and i donked them back into place , and cruised home slowly .


i will take off the prop ,, and make some washers to fit in the cup detents , and weld them on properly ,also check the prop cannot hit anything on full bounce .



regards
robert

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Re: lpg feed pipe size on 500 bhp engine.

#163 Post by robertXX » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:19 pm

quick questions , i filled the tank with 40 litres ,and manually stopped ,it seemed too much or the size of tank ........its a 47 litre tank so should the auto cut off have stopped filling before 40 litre ?


next , with the tank gauge showing full ,

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the led readout on the votran switch

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is showing 2 leds not 4

Image


. the tank sender has a green and a white wire like normal , but also an earth , so the plug is a 3 pin, not 2 ,i connected the green and white to my switch , and the 3rd wire goes to a ring bolted under the head of one of the tank valve body screws.

any ideas?


thanks

regards
robert.

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Re: lpg feed pipe size on 500 bhp engine.

#164 Post by LPGC » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:33 pm

80% of 47litres is 37.6litres, if filling such tank I knew was completely empty I'd have let it fill as much as it would let me to see how many litres it would take before calling it a problem.. It might have cut off at 43 litres leaving 10% headroom which would be more than enough headroom really, in which case I'd be pleased it took the extra few litres.

There are many specs of sender, most use only an earth and signal wire but powered types have a 3rd wire which usually goes to +5v or +12v. Not sure about your Voltran switch and it's loom but it may be possible to program it to work with various spec senders (Voltran's own spec sender and the more usual spec senders), could be that it's set to work with a different spec sender or the wiring is wrong. Your switch isn't AEB but AEB switches can be programmed (by rocking the switch while ignition is turned on while watching LEDs which at this point act as status indicators), they default to expecting a 50ohm sender but are usually programmed to work with the more usual 0-90ohm type sender. The Voltran switch might default to expect a Voltran type sender - What type is your sender?
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Re: lpg feed pipe size on 500 bhp engine.

#165 Post by robertXX » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:38 pm

sender says aeb ?


Image


i think the voltran is a 90 ohm.

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Re: lpg feed pipe size on 500 bhp engine.

#166 Post by Brian_H » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:50 pm

Given its a used sensor I'd start by checking it actually works properly across its range as a first step - multimeter and a screwdriver with the sensor removed to move the pointer (its a magnetic pickup so you can move it if you remove it from the multivalve and use the screwdriver on the back to make it go where you want it to). That would also confirm if its a 50 or 90ohm type - I think that bit round the edge would tell you that, where it says SAEB ----- I can't make out the rest of the digits after that.

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Re: lpg feed pipe size on 500 bhp engine.

#167 Post by LPGC » Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:24 pm

AEB make various spec senders, the most usual type is 0-90ohm but there are several other specs.
AEB sequential system ECUs have a green and white wire in the loom to connect to the level sender, neither of these wires is an earth for the sender (the installer has to earth the sender separately) but whether just the green, just the white or both green and white connect to the sender's signal wire depends on the spec of the sender (both green and white connect to the sender signal wire for a 0-90ohm sender).

If you disconnect the sender (cut wires and remove from the tank) you'll be able to move it's dial around using a screwdriver (the sender only has a magnetic connection to the float) and see if/how resistance changes according to dial position across it's wires. So for example if you found 0 ohms with the dial pointing to empty and 90 ohms between the sender's earth and just one of it's other wires and you know the Voltran uses a 90 ohm sender you could try just connecting the sender to earth and just the 90 ohm reading wire to the Voltran's signal wire. But first it'd be helpful to know if one of the Voltran's two sender wires is just an earth or power feed for a powered sender etc.

Might be worth mentioning that senders can be broken in a way in which they work properly over some of the range but at some points in the range give spurious output, a usual cause is when the sender is earthed separately to the LPG ECU and the main ECU earth was bad (the sender goes bad at the dial position it was at at the time of the bad ECU earth because excess current flowed through the sender damaging the resistive strip or resistors that accorded to the dial position). When this has happened a 0-90ohm unpowered sender might give correct reading over most of it's range but there might be a point in mid-range where it's open circuit causing the LEDs to read a full tank.

Had customers since I started writing this, post crossed with Brian's. Seems to read 90 after SAEB Bri.
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Re: lpg feed pipe size on 500 bhp engine.

#168 Post by robertXX » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:17 pm

great info brian and simon thank you , here's a very very slightly better picture ..


Image

still pretty bad !

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Re: lpg feed pipe size on 500 bhp engine.

#169 Post by Brian_H » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:03 pm

It does look like a 90 ohm by the bit Simon mentioned earlier - Though I'd still suggest you check it actually works as the next step with a multimeter. You don't need to empty the tank to do so either as it sits outside of the multivalve.

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Re: lpg feed pipe size on 500 bhp engine.

#170 Post by classicswede » Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:54 pm

It's a hall sensor not 0-90 or a 1050
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Re: lpg feed pipe size on 500 bhp engine.

#171 Post by robertXX » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:50 pm

Does that mean it's either on or off dai ? Not variable at all .

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Re: lpg feed pipe size on 500 bhp engine.

#172 Post by Brian_H » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:36 pm

Have a look at this
http://www.drypa.pl/produkt763_AKCESORI ... ovtec.html
Unfortunately I don't speak or read Polish, but there are some much better pics of the same sensor there which gives the full number. Never seen one like that personally, But if its the same size as a normal sensor changing it won't be too major, Just need to find something that will match the system you already have.

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Re: lpg feed pipe size on 500 bhp engine.

#173 Post by classicswede » Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:56 am

It is variable. Wiring is black to earth, Green to green and white to white but not all switches will work with it. Most switches are dedicated to one type of sender.
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Re: lpg feed pipe size on 500 bhp engine.

#174 Post by robertXX » Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:38 am

Is it worth earthing the sender earth to the car chassis at all ?

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Re: lpg feed pipe size on 500 bhp engine.

#175 Post by LPGC » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:13 am

classicswede wrote:It is variable. Wiring is black to earth, Green to green and white to white but not all switches will work with it. Most switches are dedicated to one type of sender.
Yeh and I think the Voltran stuff used to come supplied with a Voltran sender, not sure what spec the Voltran sender would be.
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Re: lpg feed pipe size on 500 bhp engine.

#176 Post by robertXX » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:39 am

i think all those carb/lpg switch boxes i have dealt with ,which have different labelling but inside are pretty similar , have a 0-90 ohm signal requirement ?

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Re: lpg feed pipe size on 500 bhp engine.

#177 Post by robertXX » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:36 pm

ok dokey ,well as far as i can tell , a hall effect is going to be giving out a varying voltage , so wont work with my switch , i looked at all my other tanks , and the senders are all much smaller and would not fit on the mounting points .bum .


in other news did some dyno testing ..

torque

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bhp

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definately not firing on all 12 , plugs on front engine good ,back engine black .


i got v to sit in and hold 3k rpm ,and adjusted to 13.5:1 , and also shut fdown the idle bleeds totally , and set the senstivity vap screws to 13:1.

took it for a drive and not as good as before , so that way of setting the mix not working ... oh also set plugs to .5mm , and had it running on all 12 on tickover .


strongly suspect airflow past the inlets the problem , will take a pressure signal from the front of car to vap vent ports and see what that does.


regards
robert.

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Re: lpg feed pipe size on 500 bhp engine.

#178 Post by robertXX » Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:06 am

UPDATE .

vap balance pipe to front of car caused surging . ign timing reset to 15 static and 28 total .much more powerful now . mpg was 3.77 on the way to blenhiem palace car show , after timing setting now above 5 mpg ,still v rich . may take out 25mm rings ,since front engine tap fully shut .

need a) msd ignition B) seperate adjuster taps on each cylinder .

logged the pipe temps on 4 cyls yesterday ..


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if i can adjust all cylinders to similar temps ,then i can trust the wide band sensor as representative of all cyls ?

anyone got a propane afr temp graph ? i assume it gets hotter the richer it is then cools off like a oxy flame .

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Re: lpg feed pipe size on 500 bhp engine.

#179 Post by robertXX » Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:12 am

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Re: lpg feed pipe size on 500 bhp engine.

#180 Post by robertXX » Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:26 pm

Contemplating the misfiring on the rear engine. . I am using a jag xjs distributor with electronic pickup

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So if the toothed wheel normally flies past a powerful magnet just before the pickup when going normal ccw , what happens to the signal if the magnet is after the pickup gong cw ?

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