retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

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Tubbs
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#401 Post by Tubbs » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:12 pm

Thats the one ! Cheers richard.

retrosii
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#402 Post by retrosii » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:14 pm

so popped out and made a quick video so every one can see whats going on .
its started raining so was going to fully resat the system by removing the fuse and going though the set up steps again
but the weather got the better of me ..
i personally think its the controller and the hole system both gas and petrol would work better with a single stepper system ,what do you think?
as you can see it works but has a few issues but it could just need a reset but that will not solve the idle...

anyway i need info on my next step if i have to spend more cash
if any one has a leo unit for sale or knows were to get the one i need drop me a link also do i need a new interface and software as ive seen leo software free on the net (i think)


http://s672.photobucket.com/user/mrsimo ... 2.mp4.html
Image

demonicwillow
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#403 Post by demonicwillow » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:25 pm

Unfortunately that video isnt that helpfull, we need to see more of the right hand side as in the o2 display, without that no one can tell how the o2 responds to the stepper and vice versa. But your not that far away from getting to where you want to be :P

retrosii
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#404 Post by retrosii » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:36 pm

Yeah sorry about that, but I can tell you exactly what it's doing on idle it's rich is right at the top on red then under acceleration it goes lean all the way to the bottom on green, as a stepper gets to the middle point only then does it start to shift back and forth. That's where I moved the camera over so you can see it.

demonicwillow
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#405 Post by demonicwillow » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:30 pm

So can we assume that at idle when its rich the stepper is closed down and when you drive the o2 shows lean until the stepper opens up enough to control the mix, if thats the case then one flat at a time gradually close the large bias screw on the vaporiser which will reduce the amount of gas being drawn at idle then drive it and see what happens and see if you can get a better balance, it will probably take a few drive arounds, its what I used to do when setting up, adjust it, drive it then pull up in a layby or somewhere safe and tweek it again.

retrosii
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#406 Post by retrosii » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:01 pm

Well I did try that but it kept stalling . In the video you can see it trying to use the vap stepper and then switching to the second stepper and that seems to be were the problem is because it takes so long for the lambda and the stepper tonreach the correct place ...
I will ajust it again and reset the system and hopefully the lpg control will learn the best nuber of steps to switch between the to steppers even though there is only one .
Gona give it one last try before I go down the leo controller rout .

Any other tips??????

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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#407 Post by Gilbertd » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:31 pm

On a system with just the one stepper, you would set the vaporiser so that the stepper is open the same amount, or at least as close as you can get it, at idle and when under load. This is so that you don't have periods when the stepper is changing to get things correct. You seem to have a situation where at idle the main stepper is open too wide, so you've got a rich mixture but it then closes down as the revs are increased and the mixture becomes correct. What happens at idle if you carefully tweak the main bias on the vaporiser to get the lambda reading something like correct?
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

retrosii
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#408 Post by retrosii » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:44 am

I will try set it today today if I get time and the rain stops

demonicwillow
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#409 Post by demonicwillow » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:28 am

I really cant see how this is going to work properly, you have a system that requires two stepper motors but your only using one, is it possible to disable the idle stepper function in your software ?? or, is it possible to have 2 steppers in the feed so that one controls the drive and the other the idle ??

Gilbertd
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#410 Post by Gilbertd » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:47 am

Hang on a minute. Going back to page 15 of this thread, you posted pictures of the manual. You have the ability to set limits on the actuator movement. So, look at what the stepper position is at 3,000 rpm when the lambda is doing as it should and switching between lean and rich. Set that as the default. Then set the Actuator max high position and actuator max low position to +20 (as that is as low as it can be set). This will restrict the stepper movement and, hopefully, keep the mixture something like correct at idle. It will also stop the stepper from having to wind itself in and out to get to where it wants to be. You may also need to enable the actuator max increase in acceleration and set that at +20 too (or even +30) so it doesn't go lean when you give it some welly.
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

retrosii
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#411 Post by retrosii » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:36 pm

Ok I did not read the last post before I had a fiddle . I got the idle as close to perfect as I could but of couse with out the first stepper I get not lambda swing so the car ecu keeps opening and closing the icv.
And itwould not rev up so I reset the system and will tryagaain on the way home whenits nice and warm .
I really dont think imbgetting anywaere . I dont really know how to set the stepper but could give it ago .
But it stll will not swing at idle and with thembda just tee'd in to its messing up the petrol setting ...
Do you think a leo would just be alot easier ????

Any one tell me how to set the defaults ?

Gilbertd
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#412 Post by Gilbertd » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:47 pm

retrosii wrote:Any one tell me how to set the defaults ?
In the software. You should even be able to lock the stepper in one place if you want to but it won't be right at all times so will need to be able to change under control of the lambda sensor output. The petrol system isn't getting offended because of the lambda being Teed into it, it's getting offended because the mixture is out when running on gas.
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

retrosii
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#413 Post by retrosii » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:39 pm

Ok I spent ages messing with the system reset the system and got the stepper to defult at around half so it is fine between idle and revs but I cant set the idle because it thoughs out the stepper default and just will not work . Also caaar sputters and bogs under load while driving wich is scary when trying to go round a tractor lol.
I really do not have any faith in this system ....
So whats next ?

Gilbertd
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#414 Post by Gilbertd » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:50 pm

If you go into the software you can set the default to whatever you want it to be. What do you mean by it throws out the default? If, as I suspect, the Landi unit you have is based on AEB electronics, you must hit Return after you change anything in the software or it doesn't save it. You can also set the amount of movement the stepper is allowed to make both at idle and under power. When it bogs down under acceleration what is the software telling you? Is it rich or lean, what is the stepper doing at the time?
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

retrosii
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#415 Post by retrosii » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:39 pm

Ok this is whats happening . I did not set the stepper myself I just reset the system and got it running on gas then got the revs to 2500rpm nd held it for three minutes this set the defult on the second stepper to around the half way mark dropped the revs and reved it again stepper started from the midle (new default mark) that was fine but idle was still very rich so I started to ajust the idle but this made the second stepper change from the midle to much higher up and reving was near imposible . So I changed it but to running rich at idle with the stepper starting from midle but while driving under load it would bog (go lean) and sputter bit catch up after a short time ....
I dont think there is ny way of using one stepper the system can't do it ...
Im sure I could sort out the bogging by setting the stepper to open more steps at a time but this would not make any difference if I cant control idle and low revs....

Do kmow whtat to do now ive tried everthing .

Gilbertd
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#416 Post by Gilbertd » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:00 pm

retrosii wrote:reved it again stepper started from the midle (new default mark) that was fine but idle was still very rich so I started to ajust the idle but this made the second stepper change from the midle to much higher up and reving was near imposible .
That doesn't make sense. Why, if it is rich, is the stepper opening up to make it richer still? We are assuming that the idle stepper that you no longer have would have controlled the mixture at idle but it would make sense for the main stepper to stay where it was, ready to take over when you give it some throttle. I can't think of any reason why it would open up when it has no reason to do so.

Have you tried setting the limits to prevent it from opening up?
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

retrosii
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#417 Post by retrosii » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:51 pm

No I have not set them myself . I did the seft learning steps as in the manual . The idle srepper doea idle and low revs aswell I dont know why it changed but it did ... I think it said in the manual that it learns the correct setting every time the system is turned of and back on again .....

Ive got a feeling it would take abiut ten minutes to set up with a single stepper system .lol.

I made a video but not in a 3g erea so cant post it ...

I will read up on how to set the stepper and see if it stays put ...

Gilbertd
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#418 Post by Gilbertd » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:08 pm

Sounds like it works in much the same way as a Leo. It will learn the default setting, the average setting that is about right for most of the time and it will then adjust a little one way or another to keep the lambda bobbling about the mid point. The problem it seems you have is that it isn't moving a little one way or the other but miles one way or another. Presumably this is because it is a little confused because the idle stepper isn't there any more. You need to set the limits so you don't allow it to move as far. So, if your default is at 100, by setting the limits to +20 you are only allowing it to go as far as 120 and not way off tune. You're tweaking this and that but not getting it under control because it is fighting with you all the time. Sit down with the laptop and work your way through the configuration in the software rather than fiddling with settings under the bonnet.

You'd have exactly the same problem setting a Leo as it works in just the same way (except the limits are set quite small as a default and you would have to open them up wider to allow it to do this).
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

demonicwillow
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#419 Post by demonicwillow » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:27 am

when I first wired in my o2 sensor many moons ago I had the wires the wrong way around, it would idle fine but when being driven the stepper reacted oposite to what was required ie closed when should open and opened when supposed to be closing, all the car did was bog down, is it possible you have the wires tot he o2 back to front ??

Gilbertd
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Re: retro 1985 nissan leopard install (build thread)

#420 Post by Gilbertd » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:48 am

Pretty impossible if he's wired it how he's been told and simply Tee'd the purple to the signal wire. Whether the setting is right in the software though is another matter......
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

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